Wait, the mod removed the option to set a gender in the character editor? Why don’t these people just make a male character and be done with it?
Because it’s not actually about the pronouns. These people aren’t actually angry about pronouns.
They’re angry about trans and non-binary people. They’re angry that people are growing to accept these people, who they do not think should be accepted. They are angry that a group they don’t think is normal, is being accepted as normal.
I don’t think it’s even about that, they’re angry because the want to be angry. The why doesn’t matter, if the current right wing outrage du-jour had been… I dunno, left handed people rather than trans people, you’d see all the same people working themselves into a screaming tantrum if a game or movie had a left handed person in it.
Oh no, it’s very much hatred. The same hatred they had for black or gay people.
Who the hell are you to say that I hate black and gay people? You’re overgeneralizing a group, how much different are you in this case? Stop with that man, this is why we can’t have actual debates.
The problem is you want to debate.
There’s no debate. No one has to tolerate your intolerance.
Gay people exist. Trans people exist. Fin.
Stereotyping people and overgeneralizing things without actually debating your point is ridiculous. Grow up man.
For sure. And when there’s not enough people focused on trans people they’ll shift their focus to some other marginalized group to harass.
These limp dicked losers have literally nothing better to do but jerk each other off in their seedy racist forums and message boards.
And the “replaced white people”. And the female leaders. If someone wants a taste, go through the Steam forums for the game. It’s a complete deranged mess.
Steam forums are the absolute bottom of the barrel for game discussion, maybe tied with 4chan.
Let’s roll it back a bit. There’s a bit of a difference between “accepted” and “tolerated”. For the most part, the trans community is merely tolerated by the majority of the country.
I don’t know what the point of your comment is.
Trans and non-binary people are becoming more accepted as normal over time. The people screaming about pronouns don’t actually care about pronouns, they oppose that gradually growing acceptance.
It’s not “about trans and non-binary people,” it’s about the injection of identity politics into video games. The removal of the mod shows that activist fiat is necessary to present the illusion that people buy into gender ideology.
The existence of trans and nonbinary people is not an injection of identity politics into video games. The fact that they exist and a video game is acknowledging their existence is not political.
did a bot write this? what are you even trying to say?
Are you one of those people that thinks anything that’s not straight cis white is “identify politics”? That anything that isn’t your world view is “political”? If so, please go fuck yourself. If not, I have no idea what you’re on about.
Pronouns, gender, genitals, etc. in player-character customization are just yet another option for someone to tailor their gameplay to whatever experience they want.
The only identity politics comes from the people politicizing it.
“Identity politics” always seems to mean “I am upset that different people exist.”
This is a nothing option in a video game. Nobody’s rubbing your nose in it. It doesn’t affect you, at all, but it’s a neat little extra for other people. Do you give a shit about other people? Or does the mere possibility of anyone distinct from you, the protagonist of reality, fill you with emotions you can’t handle? There’s no third option, here. It’s a checkbox for how NPCs choose voice lines, in exactly the same way they’ve done for decades. It’s just separate now.
But of course one glance at your profile shows you’re an unapologetic bigot, and what you mean by “gEnDeR iDeOlOgY” is exactly what every other diet Nazi means by it: you hate queer people, and you want it to be their fault.
Out.
Yeah, having that “he/she/they” toggle and calling sex “body type 1 and 2” instead of male/female sure is political. You know when it became political? When people saw them and went “REEEEEEEEEEEEE” because they’re bigoted dumbfucks.
,“Identity politics” in this case meaning “trans and non-binary people exist and are trans or non-binary respectively”.
The removal of the mod shows that activist fiat is necessary to present the illusion that people buy into gender ideology
Bullcrap. It shows nothing of the sort. It shows nothing more than that NexusMods doesn’t feel like hosting assholes.
It’s only politics because people go out of their way to oppress them. There’s nothing to be political about if people are allowed to be who they are.
The fact that you unironically used the term 'gender ideology ’ proves that you are, in fact, a bigoted little shit.
They need to force their views on others. If anyone believes what they believe, then they are suddenly just like everyone else instead of the bigot they know they are deep down
They aren’t really forcing their views on anyone though, they’re just jacking themselves off. No nonconforming person is going to download this and inflict it on themselves, and they have no reason to use it themselves unless they’re just really closeted and lack the will to not express their own nonconformity. It can literally only exist to rile people up who sought out the mod specifically, which includes only them.
If they weren’t trying to force their views on others they’d just make their character a guy and move on. They go through the trouble of coding this mod to push their agenda on others.
What I’m trying to say though is that most of them just do make their character a guy and move on. They don’t need the mod and the people who they think do need it aren’t going to install it. It’s not just a transparent attempt to ignite culture war arguments online, but it’s a stupid and ineffective one.
The point of the mod is not to change something in game, its to appear in the list of mods and remind some people that they are hated and bigots will never stop hating them.
Its a weird “I was here, and I hated x people”.
I have trouble imagining enough people wanting to download a mod to do this to get it to appear on anything but the most recent releases list, and to only be on that list long enough for some other mods to get released.
Well, the type of person that would do this wouldnt be opposed to spoofing the number as well. And they can just keep reuploading the mod so it’s always appearing in the list.
The point is, their ineffective methods still worked a little. Ruining someone’s day, hour or even minute is validation enough
Apparently nexus mods has some sort of ad sharing with mod makers. Could be a grift. Grift is popular among right wingers, possibly because they are on a fundamental level stupid.
Some grifter makes an anti “woke” mod that probably took 5 minutes. A bunch of stupid chuds download it to pwn the libs. Grifter makes money. Chuds feel good about their shitty lives.
How does installing a mod on a single player game force views on anyone?
Insisting that Nexus Mods should host this bigoted mod is the losers who walk in fear of “woke culture” trying to enforce their bigoted views on the rest of the world. The assholes are still free to install that mod but Nexus Mods is just as free to not host that trash.
I can think of one: a parent who installs this before letting their child play it to enforce their culture of hatred within their house.
The crazy thing is how hysterical they’re being over something you can fail to even notice is there. It gave me male pronouns as I choose the male body type, and the button prompt to change it is hidden way down at the bottom of the screen. It’s literally on screen for a few seconds and then never mentioned again in a game with hundreds of hours gameplay.
Then they couldn’t do their performative outrage, which is all they have.
Because REEEEEEEEE
Because they’re little fucking babies.
Looking throughout history, aalways have been
What difference does it make that they don’t?
Does it matter? I have a mod to improve blood splatter, does murder meet your approval?
To confused people exploring from all Communities trying to understand what the hell is going on:
- Bethesda is a game studio who does a decent job of giving people choice to do/be whatever they want in their games. Out of the box they included the option to choose your pronouns in a new game called “Starfield”.
- They also make it possible to modify their games to make very drastic changes to the player experience.
- Nexus is a site that hosts thousands of mods to all sorts of games. People make mods, upload them to Nexus and players download them.
- Someone made a mod to remove the option to choose pronouns from Starfield.
- Nexus decided they don’t want to host this mod. It’s hurtful to people and goes against their values of inclusivity.
That’s about it. Most of the people whinging about censorship don’t even play the game. They’re just here to whinge about how the world is moving on from old bigoted ways and they want to stay in the past and be jerks to people for merely existing. If they actually cared, they’d just download the mod from some other site. The mod itself is probably not much bigger than this reply.
Most of the people whinging about censorship
To further add on that, to complain about censorship for a mod that LITERALLY censors the game.
In undue fairness, a mod to downgrade nudity or vulgarity would kinda make sense, if someone personally didn’t want to see that. (Or if they were concerned about it for streaming. Or they had kids in the room.) For example, there’s some racial slur graffiti in Bioshock Infinite that is used for highly effective shock value and characterization, and I could see someone wanting to tone it down.
The root issue is what’s being removed: the abstract possibility of characters being called “him” or “her” independent of their appearance. To people who won’t use the feature, it is literally nothing. It simply does not exist beyond a checkbox they’ll scroll clean past. The game part of the game will work exactly as they expect, from start to finish.
They’re whining about censorship because the real purpose of this mod is to signal that they’re against anyone else having that option.
They are performatively upset by this trivial separation of character model and branch condition. Because they hate trans people. There is no other possible motivation, because this pointless change is simple and direct.
This removal is a website telling those bigoted trolls: poop in someone else’s yard.
I didnt even think about that lmao
deleted by creator
This is like that old “progressive redneck” meme. I agree with the spirit of what you said but shit that’s not how I would say it.
deleted by creator
Happens all the time IRL to me. I use both he and she pronouns and ignorant people always ask why bother just pick one. Well, I did, they’re my PERSONAL pronouns and I chose both these.
I like to call them snowflakes. Makes them mad when you use their own words against them.
Sorry jimmyjohn, I’ll use whatever pronoun I like. We live in AMERICA I can do whatever I want, stop being a snowflake.
deleted by creator
I’ll add that my understanding is that you aren’t even prompted to choose a pronoun in-game – it defaults to one or the other based on your character creation choices, and you can then change it if you want to. It’s literally a non-issue.
But, but… “PRONOUNS! GENDER AMBIGUITY! ARGLE BARGLE CRAZYRANT!!1!one!”
Good for Nexus
Happy to continue using their services
Moderation exists to identify and exclude people who are being absolute cocks.
You don’t need any grand philosophical statement about values. You don’t need to defend the paradox of tolerance against absolutist demands for unrestricted expression. It’s perfectly fine to say: you were doing some diet Nazi shit, that’s awful, fuck off.
This is all fine and well, but am I the only one a bit concerned about how NexusMods is practically a monopoly in the modding scene? Why does literally every modder have to use a rate-limiting host as a platform, especially when Github exists?
Considering their policy doesn’t allow for other stuff like this, yeah I am not surprised.
Content that may be generally construed as provocative, divisive, objectionable, discriminatory, or abusive toward any real-world individual or group, may be subject to moderation. This includes but is not limited to content involving politics, race, religion, gender identity, sexuality, or social class. We tolerate content related to real world issues and events as long as the appropriate tag (“Real World Issues”) is used and the content is handled in a tasteful, respectful, and non-inflammatory manner. Users who do not wish to see such content should make use of our content blocking feature.
Reminds me of the time when a Spiderman mod removed the VERY few instances of a pride flag in a recreation of NEW YORK CITY and a Skyrim mod that removed any potential gay romances that only occur when wearing a very specific amulet (including a single dead skeleton couple off the beaten path.)
Those got booted as well cause…come on now. Its blatantly targeting a group of people about their sexuality and gender who have BARELY any presence to begin with in these games.
Starfield is even more egregious as its LITERALLY just a menu option and the rare use in dialogue…
Really pathetic and sad people would even feel the need to make them to begin with. Let alone feel the need to upload them to a platform.
I swear to god, every time i hear about conservatives getting upset about gay and trans rights I’m more convinced it’s projection. They want to have the freedom to follow their own preferences but have been taught by someone in their family and/or society that certain preferences are completely unacceptable. Rather than go against the grain, they lean into the hate side of it. “If i can’t have that, you sure as hell can’t–and if you do, you’re gonna pay dearly” seems to be the philosophy. All this because they want to explore their sexuality but they decided the social price is too much. Not allowed to have what they crave, now they just scorn those that are brave enough to face the storm they themselves avoided…or they just hate people having freedom. Probably both.
It’s only anecdotal, but a lot of the people I know who were hateful like that while growing up actually did come out as LGBTQ+. Some were trans, some were gay, some were bi, etc.
Some of them are just a-holes though. One dude complained about a gay classmate. He never liked it when I asked him why he was thinking about what the other guy was doing with his bits so much. I’ve always thouht it was a fair question. I never did get an answer, though.
You’re overthinking it.
Conservatives don’t believe things. Conservatives believe people.
Their stated ideals are ad-hoc justifications. All that has ever mattered is ingroup loyalty. Reality itself is defined by interpersonal trust. What’s true today is simply dictated by people above you in The Hierarchy, and your job is to make whatever mouth noises justify them. If they weren’t right and better and handsome then obviously they wouldn’t belong in that high position. It is impossible for someone to simply be wrong. That would require an objective means of evaluating claims. In their worldview, that is not what claims are for.
This constant quest for logical explanations is a category error. Logic is not what they’re doing. They think the whole world runs on who-says. Like if they get their guy to be the head scientist, he could make the sun go around the Earth.
Conservatives don’t believe things. Conservatives believe people.
This is kind of deep. Feels true. Did you come up with this?
I did. This whole conservative theory-of-everything has been pinging around my brain for years, as many answers to ‘what the fuck are they doing’ became undeniably incomplete.
The hardest aspect to deal with is that this worldview is not fragile. There’s no ‘are we the baddies?’ moment where someone snaps out of it. If it was just a reverse cargo cult, there’d be more people who reject the invitation. So we can’t tell ourselves these people secretly know we’re right. This is not an act or a strategy. It has to be some internally consistent way of filtering events… and it has to look like what we’re doing, from the outside. Because in exactly the same way we tell ourselves everyone’s trying to be reasonable - they tell themselves we’re just performing loyalty.
It’s tribalism. Simple as that. It’s humanity’s default us-good-you-bad protect-the-village mindset, expanded from trusting your witch-doctor’s opinion on leeches to trusting your news anchor’s opinion on horse dewormer. I mean, he’s gotta be right. Look how much money he has. His penis must be enormous.
I don’t think your idea precludes the idea conservatives are bitter about their own self-repression. The social cost of exploration being too high is flip side of the strict adherence to hierarchy for world view. If there wasn’t some emotion to tap into the narrative wouldn’t land nearly as well as it has
The thing is it’s only just tangentially related to trans rights. I mean they’re making a character creation screen and they do need to know what pronouns to refer to the character as in game dialog as the player is playing it. So they need to know that for the game to work.
These fools seem to want Bethesda to add logic to restrict the pronouns on the character creation screen. So it’s not that they’re angry that Bethesda made an effort to be inclusive. They’re angry that Bethesda didn’t put in an effort to explicitly exclude trans people.
That and I think they’re just generally triggered over the word “pronoun.” Triggered by words that describe words. There’s something very wrong with these people.
Whenever you hear a conservative complaining about anything at all, it’s always projection/admission or both.
“They’re rigging the elections,”
“They’re gonna riot if Biden doesn’t win,”
“They’re running pedophile rings under their favorite pizza parlor,”
I could go on.
I think they want what trans, gay, lesbians, etc have. In terms of resources, jobs, money, social contacts and status. So, just like it happened with religion, they highlight the difference between you and them. Tribes created. Now it’s a Us against Them where them are different, so not human, inferior. If they are not human we can do whatever we want to them. And the rights start to be eroded. People arrested. We can go further down the line but you know what happens next. The Them get eliminated and the Us get the resources. We’ve seen this happen for ages.
Have you read Terry Pratchetts book Thud? It touches on that briefly. For what its worth i agree with you. Nothing else makes sense. Especially when so many vocal homophobes get caught having same-sex fun.
deleted by creator
People will eventually stop giving a fuck. This same shit happened in 1954 w/gay people. Gay people started suing and winning, and society moved forward.
We’ll likely see the same thing. Generally, it has to get worse before things get better. Back then, it started when scientists got fed up with getting their buttholes inspected by “security” to make sure they weren’t gay today (embellishing a bit here, but the gist is that they got fed up with the constant fear mongering and told the security teams to fuck off).
I’m sure we’ll reach a fever pitch and then someone will tell them to fuck off, as is usual. Then everyone will forget about it, save for some older folks.
Check out the Lavender Scare: the prosecution of gays and lesbians in the federal goverment by David K Johnson. It’s an uplifting book on how social movements get going and how it provides a sea change for society at large, even straight folks, in this case.
To be clear, there’s 50 years from 1954 to when gay marriage was first legalized. And 40 years ago, we even thought we were done with the whole abortion debate. Don’t even need to get into how long it took for people with Brown skin were legally treated anywhere near equal. BLM was how many years after the Emancipation? And still opposed by people who “want to leave it all well alone”. It’s a big deal that it takes that long to enact minimal change (considering we have a seated SCOTUS Justice who said we need to reconsider the constitutionality of gay marriage)
The real problem, perhaps, is everyone coming to the defense of the modder, even here. People saying “just let people do what they do” (see highly upvoted comment here). If the intolerant side “do what they do” and the rest of us get bored or sick of the human rights side, then it takes 50 years, or 100 years, or more to make meaningful change.
Society has moved on to attacking Trans and non-binary people, gays included in this ignorant lot (obviously not all gays).
People gonna hate what they don’t understand or if something makes them uncomfortable.
Rather than go against the grain, they lean into the hate side of it. “If i can’t have that, you sure as hell can’t–and if you do, you’re gonna pay dearly” seems to be the philosophy.
Making a game mod that only effects people who choose to install it seems like a poor strategy for achieving that.
deleted by creator
Removed by mod
The argument really isn’t against pronouns.
It’s against censorship. Why shouldn’t I be able to remove that feature from my game if I want to?
Is it really hurting anyone if I don’t want stupid pronouns in my game?
I’ll note that I don’t own the game and have never played it. Just an outside observer watching the stupidity.
I can tell you definitively that yes, this debate hurts people. Sending the statement that it’s a valid point of view to consider trans people mentally ill (or worse) harms people. If you look at how our existence is being debated and the consequences of that you would have to be very privileged to not see a problem.
NexusMods is a private company with their own conditions for using their services.
You are not entitled to anything on others’ properties, including your ability to speak.
There is no freedom of speech here on lemmy.world either for you, they can restrict and block your posts from being seen by others, still their rights to do so.
That’s still a form of censorship. Arguing over the definition of the word is brain dead anyway.
Your second paragraph is all you need to say.
The more I think about it, you’re right. I edited it.
thats self censorship!!!
It’s a pretty common conversation and people rarely appreciate my pedantry, so thanks =D
Is it really hurting anyone if I don’t want stupid pronouns in my game?
There’s pronouns in this sentence.
Dude, I went through character creation and barely noticed the pronoun option was even there. The mod is unnecessary
I thought so too, but you and I are not everyone else. Imagine if they removed a mod that included pronouns. I would still be against censorship.
It’s almost like inclusion and exclusion are different.
It’s almost like you exclude yet call it inclusion.
My guy. Even your sneering comment described it as inclusion.
Nexus Mods is a private site with their own terms of conditions. They are saying no to mods that removes diversity and it is their rights.
People can go elsewhere instead.
This isn’t a court of law and I’m not arguing the statutes. I don’t like unilateral censorship in any form and I’d be equally butt hurt if they banned a mod to include pronouns.
Bear in mind we are both here because of the actions of a private corpo.
Imagine if they removed a mod that included pronouns.
A mod that makes other people feel included is NOT on the same level as a mod that deliberately excludes them. There’s a massive difference here.
The pronoun removing mod is a pretty blatant message of hate and deserves to be moderated as such. People can go on about freedom of speech blah blah blah, but no one is required to include you in their community if you’re being mean and hateful. That’s exactly what happened here.
If you don’t want to feel excluded then don’t install the mod.
I don’t understand why people argue for less options that don’t affect them.
No one is forcing the mod on you. Is it really that harmful that it exists?
I don’t give 2 shits if a mod exists that makes everyone in the game trans or gay or anything else. I’m just not going to install the mod unless it improves the game in some way or it sounds like it would make the game more interesting with alternative play styles or something.
I’m never going to argue that the mod I’m not interested in should be removed because it’s not reinforcing my beliefs.
Tolerance goes both ways. I tolerate your beliefs and you tolerate mine.
That tolerance doesn’t exist in this woke reality we are enduring at the moment. Anything that doesn’t repeat the correct narrative is subjected to cancel culture. It’s always my way or the highway.
No one is forcing the mod on you. Is it really that harmful that it exists?
Yes, in very much the same way that hate speech is moderated out of communities, and for good reason. Allowing this stuff to exist is basically saying that this is okay when it frankly isn’t. Imagine if there was a mod out there that removed your entire race and culture out of the game. How would that make you feel if you were just scrolling through the list of mods? It’s just a shitty statement to make.
We moderate things like the N-word and antisemitic Nazi bullshit out of forums all the time. This is the exact same thing and if you can’t see that, well frankly you’re probably in a position of privilege.
Tolerance goes both ways. I tolerate your beliefs and you tolerate mine.
This argument is frequently used by the intolerant to justify their actions. The one’s who identify as
theyaren’t the ones going around telling those who identify asheorshethat they’re wrong. It’s the other way around. You’re completely misidentifying who’s being intolerant here.I don’t know how to do the cool quote thing you did but I’ll answer in order.
- I don’t care if you want to edit my race out of your game. It has zero effect on me. It’s your private game. Why would I care? If I don’t like the mod it I just won’t install it. I’m never going to intervene to stop you from enjoying your game the way you want just because I don’t agree or like it.
This argument is just trying to find reasons to be offended.
I’ll give you an example that will definitely trigger you. I play HOI4. That game is a historical WW2 game. The game does not have an accurate flag for Germany because it’s symbol is not allowed to be shown in Germany. I always use a mod to put the proper Nazi flag in the game because I want my historical game to be representitive of the period. Denying me the ability to use it doesn’t make the historical event suddenly not happen. It happened. Am I suddenly a Nazi supporter because I want my war game to reflect reality?
Im not out Heil Hitlering, or calling for the deaths of millions of Jews. I’m just playing was war game in the privacy of my own home.
- I’m not American so the N word has very little meaning to me. I think it’s stupid that people can’t even write the word without being banned. How are you supposed to talk about it. It’s rediculous. If your skin colour is the right shade then you can go around saying the forbidden word at will?? Honestly I’m never going to say it because it’s not part of my cultural norm anyway.
In Australia the racist word people used for indigenous was ‘coon’. I’ve never used it and I never will. Ive not even heard anyone use it since maybe the 80s when a kid was trying to be an edgelord. Do I think the word should be banned internationally just because some wankers used it 30+ years ago? No. If you’re using it in a hateful way against someone or a people, then sure, that bastard should face some consequences.
I’m just never going to support blanket banning activities or words for everyone because of a few bad actors.
I think that’s a terrible idea.
Now we are onto the apparently oppressed rich western people that want to be called some idiotic pronouns like xi, or horse person or some other BS. I’m not doing it. It’s too stupid.
If someone wants to be called she instead of he, then whatever, I’ll call them it. It causes me no harm and I really don’t care. Live your best life.
Blocking a person from modifying their game because you don’t like the idea? That’s Nazi book burning philosophy right there. If you can’t see it irony then I don’t know what to say to you. You think your in the right, but your actually to oppressor, even if you think it’s with good intentions.
On “removing a mod that lets you commit pedophilia”
“…How dare you. Imagine if they removed a mod that got rid of pedophilia”.
Do you see why “both sides” of the issue are not “exactly alike”?
You can so whatever you want to your installation of the game on your computer. Nexus does not have to host it. No freedoms lost.
But we all know you’re not using the mod, you just want it up to stick it to the libs.
he/she/they doesn’t even own the game, just wanted to have a bigoted whinge
stupid pronouns
which is stupider, “he” or “she”
“it” is probably stupider, honestly.
How about names. Do you call Muhammad Ali still Cassius Clay? Just because that’s the name he was given at birth. Should people not have the right to change their name? Like it is here in Germany. And what exactly do you consider stupid about the pronouns them or they? I think they (!) are just normal pronouns, aren’t they? And for quite some time they are regularly used to replace single persons, if the gender of that person isn‘t known. I know that because when that started I was totally confused because I had learned different at school in the 70s.
My only take on the pronoun thing is please don’t get mad at me and go into lecture mode if I forget your preferred pronouns for a second. It’s essentially muscle memory, and I will already feel bad about it just by your facial expression from the mistake.
People generally shouldn’t get mad as long as you’re behaving in good faith. It’s like accidentally calling someone by the wrong name, you just apologise and correct your mistake.
Trans and non-binary people often get portrayed as if they’re monsters, but most are reasonable people who can understand mistakes and are capable of accepting apologies.
The more I think about all of this, the more rude I find even using pronouns instead of their name in general… are there certain sayings in English that generally require defaulting to pronouns? I am having a hard time coming up with many.
(Yes I am aware of the fact I used a pronoun to type this, but it’s not directed to a specific audience)
Generally speaking, it’s awkward in English (or even weird) to constantly use the Proper Noun every single time you refer to a person.
Simplest example is “Jim got into his car”. “Jim got into Jim’s car” is strange. And that’s within a single sentence. Properly in English, we use gendered pronouns for all unambiguous references to a person several sentences in a row. For example:
“Jim got into his car. He turned it on, and hit the gas. When he saw a red light, he stopped quickly. Jim got impatient, and honked on the horn”. That would be entirely proper, and virtually none of those pronouns should be replaced with Jim’s proper name.
Thank you. This explained how pronouns would be used, at first I always imagined you would be taking to “jim”, bur after reading I could see where you may be telling a story about “Jim” to others as a third party. I know that sounds dumb, but I never claimed to be smart.
I appreciate you taking the effort to comment instead of just downvoting like some others.
Personally, it’s nbd when people slip up - especially people who’ve known me for a very long time pre-transition. Oftentimes they correct themselves, and I usually feel worse that they feel bad about it. It’s pretty easy to tell when it’s intentional or not, and I reserve my ire for people who clearly mean disrespect.
Though, I should say, that’s now - early on in transition, it was certainly a bit harder to take. It reminded me of very fresh family abandonment and abuse over my identity. That’s not on the people who accidentally called me by the wrong pronoun, but it certainly could put me in a pretty bad place and I’m sure I wasn’t the friendliest in those moments. The more that trans folks are supported by their friends and family, the more secure they feel and the less likely they are to react strongly to being accidentally misgendered, imo.
But what the anti-trans people tend to miss when making the “offended every mis-gender” is the wide gulf of difference between being hurt and being offended. I’ve known people in Emergency Services who had PTSD triggered by off-color comments that reminded them of something they lived through (things like “he’ll have your head for this”… you can imagine why).
They weren’t offended by those off-color comments. They were hurt. And those of us who care about them are careful not to say things that hurt those we love. But if we do slip up, we know and they know that it wasn’t out of malice, and nobody is offended.
…except the people who want to call you by your deadname because hurting you makes them feel good. They are offended, and they want to hurt you. And nobody should be making excuses for them. Dozens of people here are, and that’s a shame.
Well said. We’d be so much better off if people generally had a better understanding of ©PTSD. Everyone has a responsibility for how they act, but maladaptation is a hell of a thing and takes lots of time to address, especially when people know these triggers and weaponize them because they want to see you hurt.
No one gets upset if you forget for a second. That’s not real.
You could, you just can’t host it there.
deleted by creator
It’s not censorship when private groups are doing it. Moreso, I think the entire world has figured out the right answer to the Paradox of Tolerance is intolerance (yes, even censorship).
There are two reasons said censorship is okay.
- Those who hold to these extreme beliefs are happy to censor the opposing viewpoint whether we censor them or not. They see the idea of trans human rights as unworthy of protection.
- So long as you allow a false belief to spread, there will always be adherents. When it is a harmful belief, that makes even innocent-seeming propagation of that belief genuinely harmful… which by every moral tradition (and most legal ones) is sufficient to override freedom of speech.
Remember, there is no free speech absolutism where all speech is protected. Anyone who claims otherwise is lying or ignorant. What we’re arguing about is whether to draw the line at malicious behavior that is already more harmful than speech many of us are already against.
And from your “don’t want stupid pronouns in my game”, you show you’ve fallen for bullet point #2.
People say Lemmy isn’t a hivemind but the reaction to your comment proves that this is not the case.
I’m pro choice either way. If people want to identify as they, them, it. It’s up to them. If people want the option to remove that from their game it’s also up to them. Who cares either way.
This is the wrong take tbh. It isn’t about censorship. The mod itself is a message of hate and deserves to be moderated as such, just like on any other platform.
Imagine if you were scrolling through NexusMods and you saw a mod that removed characters of your ethnicity or race from the game, or maybe a mod that added say Nazi symbols or something. How would that make you feel? Mods get removed over inappropriate content all the time, this is no different.
deleted by creator
or maybe a mod that added say Nazi symbols or something.
You know there are WW2 games that have mods that do exactly this, right? Specifically because they don’t use Nazi imagery to refer to Nazi Germany because that imagery is illegal in Germany so they use substitute imagery that’s Germany-safe to represent Nazi Germany, because that’s cheaper than managing two editions where one is historically accurate and the other is Germany-friendly. For an example of this, see Hearts of Iron.
Then you get mods that restore the historically correct imagery.
Lol I feel like you’re just proving my point. The question isn’t whether these mods exist. Of course they do. But an entire country has made such symbolism illegal specifically because its a bad part of their past and they find it offensive. They’re within their right to do so and so is Nexus Mods. Nexus Mods are allowed to remove whatever content they find offensive to cultivate the community that they want.
Share your opinion, get downvoted. Feels just like reddit!
Shit opinions get downvoted??? No way!!! Why would people do this???
Are you unfamiliar with being wrong, as a concept?
Upvotes = correct now? Or I’m wrong cos I have a different opinion to you?
Braindead take
Gonna take that as a no.
The reason some things get downvoted, is that they’re factually incorrect, morally intolerable, or just plain incoherent. Reasons matter. The fact it’s “your opinion” means nothing. Some opinions are bad, actually.
What you’re doing is a finger-curling argument. ‘Oh what, is curling your finger a crime?! I’m in trouble cuz I went like this?!’ Sir - you shot your wife.
You are still speaking your opinion on a private site but you don’t get to escape from consequences because others disagree with it.
No I do not, no one should. Your comment is the correct way of disagreeing, downvote parades are not.
Bear in mind I don’t give a shit about pronouns or no pronouns, I am against the unilateral censorship of a mod.
Hates unilateral censorship, wants to unilaterally censor our downvotes
With the way G*mers are trying to justify being shitheads. It does feel like Reddit.
Does anyone even install these mods or do they just exist for people to get outraged at?
I would imagine a bare handful of people install them.
There’s some number of people who are so angry and stupid that the mere sight of something like an option to choose pronouns fills them with blind, seething rage, so for them, mods like this are essentially QOL improvements.
More’s the pity…
option to choose pronouns fills them with blind, seething rage
Yeah I was there when BATTLETECH (still dunno why its name has to be so LOUD :P ) launched. Every hatefool was raging about it, apropos of anything or nothing. Try to talk about any part of it and it’s “OH YOU MEAN FUCKING PRONOUNWARRIOR?!?!” and a bunch of incoherent senseless bile. There’s a sizeable group of people who deeply love being offended, and it’s not us (queerfolk/LGBTQIA+/QUILTBAG/GSM/whatever). Like, I’m neck-deep in queer over here and every time I play a game with a pronoun selector at the beginning I promptly forget about it but oohhhh nooo, not these bellends. They somehow think a button at the beginning of the game that matters like three times ever has entirely DESTROYED videogames with LIES and FALLACIES 🙄
They’d be a joke and an insignificant oddity if they didn’t deliberately make messes of everything else (say, going to MWLL/other games, ranting about “pronounwarrior,” pretty sure some critters got teamkilled over it…) for no good reason.
They’d be a joke and an insignificant oddity if they didn’t deliberately make messes of everything else
My opinion exactly.
In ways, I actually feel sorry for them. In the first place, it has to suck just to be that angry and spiteful, but underneath that, it must really suck to feel so powerless and desperate and insecure that something as trivial and irrelevant as pronouns can send you into a compensatory rage.
My pity is greatly diminished by the fact that they’re toxic assholes who try to force the world to accommodate their own failures though.
Wait, Battletech? The turn based one? From 2018?
That’s amusing. I played that a couple months ago. I don’t recall ever selecting a pronoun, but I’m sure I did and then just moved on like a normal person.
Yeah, that’s the one. There was so much outrage because it had the word “pronoun” in it at all 🤣It’s just a little thing on the side during character creation and its effect is absolutely trivial. Actually I think the other MechWarriors ‘have pronouns’ too if you deliberately open the character editor for them. It’s really the bare minimum, like I’m trying to come up with something sarcastic but those people were freaking out over nnnnooothing like the one word in one game is gonna ruin videogames for them forever, or some crap.
Which, like… if we could somehow trans so hard they’d go away don’t they think we’d do it instead of just getting yelled at?
Meanwhile, my canonically enby commander is rocking a fabulous magenta mohawk and having fun headshotting all the King Crabs so they can sell them to afford catperson surgery.
Hah! Good luck with that :3
(Same but mine doesn’t have the mohawk and doesn’t specifically hunt KGCs :P . )
I’m not hunting them specifically, their cockpits just happen to be magnets for my Marauder’s laser and autocannon rounds. :P
The first one I saw, in an early “titan” mission, got taken out by a single alpha strike from long range and dropped three salvage. (I renamed it Queen Crab when I noticed that some parts of the mech were white after applying my blue/pink paint scheme.)
I just cannot get over what a terrible name “quiltbag” is. How do you say that out loud and not immediately think better of it?
Well, it’s… pronounceable? Technically?
Okay I don’t actually like it and don’t know anycritter who does but it’s there soooo putting it there seemed like a good idea at the time? 🤷
I’ve seen that in videos, but I always assumed it was for show to get their viewers riled up. I honestly can’t imagine an actual person doing this on their own, unless they were encouraged to do it by some influencer.
As in, how many people fire up a game, get mad that pronouns exist, and then search online for a “fix”? I think that number is pretty small.
But then again, I tend to be pretty careful about distancing myself from bigots.
I think that number’s pretty small too.
I’m just saying that it’s not zero.
Small government alpha males scared of having the option to choose he/him as their pronouns
Mostly the outrage.
I can see someone with a modlist with 252 mods in it adding one just to max it out, and a plugin like this wouldnt conflict with much.
Are you sure about this picture? I’m sure that instead of nice cool looking ships most I make are just flying bricks or dicks.
Errrmmm, disks, I mean disks.
Thatsapenis.jpg
How are these people not seeing that they are actively trying to censor shit with the shyte excuse “keep politics out of my games”, and then turn around and yell censorship as soon as people ignore their bigoted crap.
You don’t need to answer, it’s rhetorical.
deleted by creator
The rhetorical question highlights the complex nature of the debates around modding and game customization. The term “censorship” can indeed be used selectively to further one’s viewpoint, whether it’s calling for the removal of political elements from games or protesting the removal of a mod.
However, maybe it’s worth considering that people may hold these opinions without necessarily harboring bigoted intentions. The desire to keep politics out of games, for some, might stem from the view that games should be an escape from real-world issues. Conversely, concerns about censorship could arise from a belief in preserving the open nature of modding communities.
What we’re really grappling with is how to balance the broad spectrum of user needs and societal responsibilities. Accusations of bigotry or censorship often serve to shut down dialogue rather than facilitate a nuanced discussion about these complex issues.
So while your question is rhetorical, it does bring to light the need for more open and honest conversations about the competing values that are in play here.
In my opinion this entire debate is not political at all but is simply made to be a political statement because people don’t understand it.
Having someone forbid the use of cheese in video games because that person doesn’t like cheese is just never going to happen. If cheese comes out to be an extreme health hazard like smoking it can become political but if the only argument is “because I don’t like it” you are always going to be wrong.
Your arguing about taste and feelings. There is no point to it, as there is nothing to convince. At that point you are just telling someone their taste or feeling is wrong.
But for some reason people think they can influence someone else’s own feelings about how they feel when they get addressed as their birth gender. And for some reason it is made into a political problem because of how strongly people think they have to have control over this. It doesn’t affect them, and the only possible outcome is that a minority will suppress their emotions. There are no competing values in any way.
I don’t like cheese, but you won’t hear me bitching about people eating cheese next to me in a restaurant even if I don’t like the smell. And you especially won’t see me making this political, because that is so incredibly selfish and ignorant that it wouldn’t even be something I’d ever consider.
Incredibly petty mod to make in the first place, so Nexus might as well be petty too and remove it.
Finally, someone who isn’t just calling one side stupid and dismissing peoples points.
deleted by creator
A single player offline videogame, even!
Where do you live, Iran? Also the mod doesn’t impinge on your ability to express yourself. Not sure how that relates to being afraid in a game.
This mod “impinge” on NexusMod’s rights, it’s their private service and they have the right to set conditions on it. One of which, mods cannot remove diversity.
It’s as simple as that. The people can go elsewhere to find the same mod or share it among themselves.
As for Iran statement, are you serious? There are people getting murdered in USA for even being non-binary. Even “binary” people are getting shot for being inclusive. Like this one https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/21/us/california-pride-flag-shooting/index.html
Let me guess, you don’t have any trans friends. Probably don’t have any gay friends, either.
I know no fewer than 5 people who have been physically assaulted over their sexuality or their gender identity. My local pro-LGBTQ church was vandalized by people who left messages about how god hates them.
You deserve all those downvotes you’re complaining about if you really believe that non-binary people in the Western world aren’t reasonably afraid to express their gender.
And as for “how it relates to…a game”. Can you imagine being Jewish and a bunch of pro-nazi mods made it to the frontpage of your favorite game? Can you imagine if then everyone started bitching because the site took those hateful mods down?
Games, as online communities, are used to “innocently” draw people towards extreme beliefs.
Nowadays everything seems newsworthy… I would not be mad about it if Bethesda did not include a pronoun setting, i am not mad someone made a mod to remove said option, i am not mad nexus keeping its sovereignty to decide what they host…
What is everyone mad about? Just let ppl do whatever they do.
Exactly this. It’s a game guys, not real life.
The way you worded this makes it look like you’re against pronouns
Ok, how am I against pronouns now? I agree with the fact that people should have personal preference whether they agree with having the pronoun feature in the game or not. It’s not about being against pronouns, it’s about freedom of individual choice.
Now, I’m not forcing them to reupload the mod. But, if a moderator just solely removes the mod based on their own political idealogy, then you’re stripping the freedom away from everyone else. We can have a kill children mod but god forbid we have a remove pronouns mod.
I’ve used Nexus Mods for the past 6-7 years, I’m honestly just sad to see them take this route.
Nah man I totally agree, I just mean when you said “it’s a game, not real life”, some people could take it wrong. Nothing against you but I guess my message came across wrong too
I am, like, mildly upset about it being removed, at most. Seems like moderation team is going a bit overboard, deleting something that seems extremely mild.
It does nothing but act as a middle finger toward a threatened minority.
Lets worry about real homophobic/ transphobic problems please. I won’t go into whether the author of the mod was giving a middle finger to ppl or just always wanted the pronouns of the perceived gender for their game. Without reading the description, it is pure speculation. Even with the description, it will likely be a good amount of speculation.
In my opinion, we should worry about things that are not argumentative. Because that muddies the pool and makes future arguments harder…
it is pure speculation.
Horseshit. It targets a feature right-wing cranks are frothing about, and it has exactly the same effect as ignoring the option. Stop feigning ignorance about what diet Nazi trolls openly despise.
Nobody cares about your willful apathy on this topic. If you don’t care, stop talking.
Look i am about done arguing here, so don’t expect further comments here from me.
You and I probably have similar political interests. However, at least to me, your aggressive approach is off-putting and does not invite for discussions. It reminds me of what is happening in Germany: The far right crazy party is being excluded by a ‘firewall’. Whatever the right extremist party wants is categorically rejected, even in the rare case that it is nothing stupid (like rise funding for a public theater). It does not solve the problem, but further radicalised the members and even gave them a boost in voters. What they are presented with, is that they have to achieve more than 50%. Otherwise those far rightists wont achieve anything. Politics is about discussions and finding the path that is the most agreeable for the largest amount of people possible.
TLDR: I agree with your goals, not your methods.
Because appeasing the far right in Germany went so well for so many.
The methods in this case are a website saying “no thank you.”
If that’s beyond the pale, what the fuck is left?
Mind leach above made an extremely good point so I’m just gonna copy paste it.
Trolls escalate. They keep pushing until they get smacked down, then cry and scream and pretend they’ve been proven right. Being ignored doesn’t just embolden them, it bores them, and tells them they need to get worse to get attention. No matter what happens - no matter what anyone says to them - they get to use it in their stupid little word game.
The nature of bad faith is that there is no right answer.
You have to simply get rid of it, and the sooner, the better.
They finally give you something that controls how people refer to you in their games, and dipshits wanna remove it? This is as close as you’re going to get to having characters refer to you as a choice you’ve taken other than Codsworth and Vasco having like 1000 generic names recorded to use.
I used to have a lot of respect for Az from HeelVsBabyface as a content creator back when he did WoW videos. Many of the fanboys who play Blizzard games dismissed him as a whiny bitch when he complained about issues with the game long before other more respected creators (i.e. Bellular, Asmongold, Sodapoppin, Preach) jumped on the very same ‘fuck Blizzard’ bandwagon.
Watched him a lot less after he branched away from WoW stuff because his content was more anti-woke and not really of my interest.
His two minute anti-pronoun rant made him look like a clown and was the last straw that made me unsub to his YouTube and unfollow him on X.
What people like Az seem to forget is that Starfield is set hundreds of years in the future. I can understand why a pronoun selection menu would look out of place in a medieval setting like The Elder Scrolls, but not in a game set 300 years in the future.
Also, nobody is forcing you to play as a trans or non-binary character. This is not discrimination against white men as Az pointed out in his nonsensical rant. You can make a white male character that identifies with he/him pronouns and not be placed at a disadvantage in the game.
Yea, if you create a male looking caracter it will even default to he/him, that rant is just reducles and silly af!
reducles -> ridiculous
I kind of like the way “reducles” sounds in my head. “Rih-duck-uls”
reducles reducles reducles
Had a hell of a time trying to sound out what that word was trying to be
His two minute anti-pronoun rant made him look like a clown and was the last straw that made me unsub to his YouTube and unfollow him on X.
Part of me wants to have a “NO PRONOUNS” option. Just replace all uses of he/she/they/you/etc with the characters name, no matter how awkward that makes it read. Give Az exactly what Az wishes for.
No one will ever refer to Az by a pronoun again, Az will simply be Az regardless of if referring to Az in that fashion sounds weird as fuck and not like the way anyone would ever actually talk. But then Az will have to find another issue for Az to complain about, likely that other people are allowed to play as they see fit, even though Az is also allowed to play as Az sees fit.
This calls for everyone else to be aware of this social convention.
Kinda like someone asking about preferred pronouns.
The crazy thing is that in TES, people don’t know what a UI element is and we can hide it from the NPCs. Everyone wins. Most games don’t directly feature bigotry in their content, certainly not TES, so there’s no real reason not to include such ab thing.
Most games don’t directly feature bigotry in their content, certainly not TES
Well. Not real-world bigotry.
