That’s a recent quote from Reddit’s VP of community, Laura Nestler. Here’s more of it: This week, Reddit has been telling protesting moderators that if they keep their communities private, the company will take action against them. Any actions could happen as soon as this afternoon.
I completely understand Reddit wanting to be as profitable as possible, however it’s the approach to the users, developers, and blatant lack of care, respect and transparency that got my back up - suspect a lot of people may be the same. Communities always move and change, no platform is too big to fail.
All they had to do was allow Reddit premium users to access the site using third-party apps.
Yup. I was plenty happy to pay to keep using BaconReader. Give everyone a few months to set that up and I think things would’ve been fine. Instead, we get basically the most ham fisted way it could’ve gone.
Ohh interesting. Thinking about that, yah I would of signed up probably.
Not only this, but this has happened before. It was called Digg back in 2010.
I’m with you. I get needing to make money, but needing to go public and become just another cringe social media platform is just sad. RIP Reddit. Hello Lemmy.
I was waiting it out until I heard mods were being threatened. That’s the final call.
I’m going to be replacing posts with links to my never used socials because who cares if I’m spamming at this point.
Reddit is dead after this
Sadly, I don’t think so. I think they looked at the number of new users and the number of users using 3rd party apps and decided they can lose those.
Edit: apparently Reddit has between 500 million and 1.6 billion active users monthly. According to RiF developers, RiF and Apollo have a combined 3 million active users. If all of those 3rd party app users decide to never go back, Reddit might lose between 0.6% and 0.2% of their userbase. I think they’ll be fine…
I don’t think the issue is that users will abandon, but that the site was only as usable as it was because of the mod tools that allowed the people who worked for free to moderate.
Now spam, hate, and all other such garbage will be a lot more common. One subreddit I subscribed to only had a single active mod and the only reason the sub was functional was the mod tools that now no longer work.
It may take some time, but people will leave when the subreddits are flooded with hate and spam.
That’s until you factor in that the majority of that 0.6% and 0.2% were the people running their site for free, disabled people, or both.
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It was just a matter of time, really.
Moderators need to understand that Reddit doesn’t care if you’ve been in charge of your /sub for 10 years. They have, can and will tell you how to run it. There’s nothing for you to “negotiate.” As far as Reddit management is concerned, it’s “my way or the highway.”
Part of ending a toxic relationship is figuring out that it’s time to let go.
Well, we former Reddit mods don’t need to understand anything in that regard. Fuck Reddit in its entirety. I’m not wasting time considering their point of view. I understand that they’re pieces of shit. I did negotiate - they doubled down and so I carried through and walked the fuck away, revoked my registered copyrighted material and took the first steps to litigation when they reposted it. They’ve taken it back down after the DMCA was filed, we’ll see if it goes back up.
An ultimatum is a negotiation.
I’ll never understand the people who are hell bent on trying to get reddit back. No matter what they won’t have a say in anything that happens, own anything, or even have a voice. I’m glad people are finally moving to an open source alternative.
Invested time… And this place is pretty far behind a usable replacement in terms of content alone.
I was an early user of reddit, and it had a lot of the same problems this place had. There were no “smaller subreddits”, everything was small. But the quality of content was good, so I stuck around. It really takes a lot of effort to build a community, it doesn’t come for free. I hope you stick around and help 😀
Like others, I’m also here from Reddit Is Fun. I was a reddit user for over 16 years (with a 15 year old account). For over half of that time, RIF was my exclusive conduit to Reddit as the desktop site became increasingly unusable. Now that RIF is gone, I won’t be going back.
Long live OSS.
I think only linux users moved over here… maybe
Windows user checks in. But I’ve got to admit, just as with Mastodon, the sign-up process (and finding communities across servers) might scare some people that are not as familiar with computers as most people that are on here now.
might scare some people that are not as familiar with computers
That’s true.
Honestly, signing up was a horrible experience.
I signed up yesterday. It was not bad at all. No blood oaths or anything.
It took me a few tries over multiple days to sign up successfully
I had swear the First Ideal. The storm light is kinda fun though.
Journey before destination, Radiant.
Journey before destination, Radiant.
Really? I don’t know, I just went to a page and wrote in my data, just like registering on any other page.
It took me about 12 attempts over a few weeks to sign up. It always got stuck at the “submit” and would just load endlessly, but never send the confirmation mail.
Different computers and phones and browsers and happened across multiple servers. …I can totally see how that drives away a lot of people.
I’m using an iMac right now.
I’m here from reddit is fun , I’m on Android and going to try on my windows PC in a minute
Technically Linux…
Technically Linux…
Reddit can’t run without its moderators and it can’t monetize without data. I encourage everyone who’s defected to Lemmy from Reddit to wipe their old Reddit account using Redact. I just wiped my old account of 15 years worth of comments and post history.
I wiped my 10 year old account last night. Everything except my last post telling spez to fuck off and that he and his board have no soul or humanity.
It was hard seeing it all go, but if life has taught me anything, it’s that all things are impermanent and we should always be prepared to let go.
Ignore, duplicate 😣
There was a YouTube vid posted a few days ago showing that posts are being reinstated after deletion.
As much as I would like to do this I have too many posts there have legitimately helped people who were struggling with things.
I’ve had people respond to months old posts thanking me on several occasions for helping them. I can’t in good conscience remove thay just to spite reddit, and I do a lot of stuff out of spite.
I’m waiting for a couple of days until I’m sure my deleted comments stay deleted. After that, I’ll wipe my 6 years old account.
With so many of the power-users and mods abandoning ship, we’d better start a death pool for old.reddit.com, since it’s mostly power-users that stay with old Reddit. How long until it gets Spez’d so desktop users have to suffer enshittification with the mobile app users?
After being a Lemmy lurker for a few weeks, I submitted a request for an account on an instance that manually approves accounts earlier this week. Just checked and confirmed that my account was approved. This was based on calls for engagement to help grow the community. While I’ve been here for a bit, here’s my first participation. Ayo!
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“That’s why we’ve spent the past few weeks threatening and strong arming them. Now please, shut up and get back to work.”
Also: we’re still not going to pay you, but treat you worse. And if you quit, and the people after you keep quitting… we’re going to have to replace you with PAID moderators… and if you play your cards right and we forget who you are, you might be one of those paid mods, so uh… shut up and get back to work for free!
Reddit will die off in stages. Slowly.
First the power users are leaving now. These are the mods and the major content creators (think Minecraft leaving)
Eventually they will piss people off again and the more common content creators will leave.
Then after reddit has worse and worse content, the users who just comment will leave.
After that there will be nothing worthwhile for the lurkers and they will leave too.
Reddit will then be a wasteland.
This will all take quite a while. Even Digg took time to die off.
I think the growth of Lemmy over the last few weeks is a clear indicator that Reddit is in decline. I have deleted Apollo and my reddit bookmark and have only gone back when a Google search provided the information I needed. I won’t be going back and I think a lot of people are of the same mind.
As a person who really gets stuck in his ways and hates having to change things if I don’t have to, here I am on Lemmy. I’m ready to settle in.
Joining this was easier since I haven’t been on Reddit since the 12th
Got past the habit stage. Now I’m onto alternatives
Unfortunately for me, one of my favorite uses for reddit has been live game threads for various sports and that really only works with a larger user base. For instance, I follow the Seattle Mariners and I have found two different Lemmy instances for them. The one with the most subscribers (44) hasn’t had a game thread posted in 13 days despite the Mariners having played like 10 games in that stretch. The other one has 9 subscribers, although it looks like someone has set up a bot to automatically post a game thread and a post-game thread; however, every single one I looked at has 0 comments.
I’m not gonna be able to pull the plug on reddit entirely until Lemmy gets a serious increase in users.
Hi! I’m an admin of fanaticus.social. I’d like to apologize for the game bots disappearance. It’s back now! I made pinned a post about it, which you can read here.
We’re working hard to iron out the kinks in the game bots but I apologize for the inconvenience. I was on vacation last week and because of a bug, the choice was between keeping the fanaticus servers up or putting the bots to sleep.
The live game threads were some of my favorite parts of Reddit too. I can’t do anything about the small user base but porting the game bots over to lemmy and posting content is the best way I could think of to start attracting users.
I miss a lot of my favourite smaller subreddits too. There’s way more now popping up then there was a few weeks ago so it is getting better. It’ll take time for communities to grow, we can’t expect it to be instantly like our fave subreddits were right off the bat. We have to remember that our niche subreddits started small as well at one point. Also consider doing some posting in those slow communities yourself to get the ball rolling. I’ve noticed it takes someone else commenting and providing content before other people feel brave enough to join in too. Kind of like no one wanting to be the first or only person on the dance floor. Once a couple people get in there and begin dancing others join too.
Lemmy is something like .02% the size of reddit
Do you think that number would change significantly if one were to discount bots from the calculation? I swear 3/4 of comments on some subs were bots, I’d like to think that it’d take a chunk off the actual reddit user base
It’s been fascinating to watch the corporate web ecosystem that rose in the late 2000s slowly start to collapse.
I’m not sure if Reddit will “die off”. There seems to be a significant portion of users who don’t care about the API debacle or protests - they just want to scroll through memes.
I would definitely like to see Reddit experience more pain, given how cunty they’ve been to users and moderators. But we live in a world where big companies act like shit and get away with it.
no memes to scroll through if there is no one to post the memes
When I’ve checked the Reddit home page in the last few days (using an ad blocker of course, or sometimes an alternative Reddit front-end), it looks like stuff is still being posted.
Hopefully Reddit will feel more pain that persuades it to change course at least a little bit. But I won’t believe that the pain is happening until I see it. Unfortunately it seems to me that there are some Reddit users who just want to watch the funny videos and don’t care about Reddit’s poor behaviour.
it’s still too early. These things take time.
True I suppose things could change over time. We’ll have to see.
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Yeah Digg didn’t die in a day. It takes time. I joined lemmy today, but I looked into it a few weeks ago first. It wasn’t worth the effort then, it is now. Having an Apollo-like app is a big help too.
Every previous major exodus had the problem that it was the people everyone was better off without leaving. Maybe you hated Reddit in 2015 and were pissed at their decisions, but the alternative was a place dedicated to mocking fat people and saying slurs.
Comparatively lemmy just kinda has a similar vibe to Reddit. Like I need to look for equivalents to some spaces I miss, but it’s not the people we said good riddance to
I’m in the same boat, I just joined today and I’m surprised but Lemmy already scratches the same itch that reddit did
A lot of Mods might be looking at all the work they have put into their communities over the years and think “I can’t leave all of this.” Which at this point, given Reddit Corp’s behavior, is a sunk cost fallacy.
It’s time to jump ship, or learn to live with the new reality. Which is really the same as the old reality, the thin veneer of civility has just been stripped away. This is Capitalism and it always turns out this way. Just look at how many products have been ruined, because someone, somewhere decided they needed more money. Anyone familiar with Hasbro’s heavy handedness with Magic the Gathering and Dungeons and Dragons knows what I am talking about.
Reddit CEO calls unpaid moderators’ concerns “noise”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOm_UKGyrZg
This is abusing volunteers. If there are 140,000 active subreddits and if 10% of the moderators hang up their aprons, then Reddit has 14,000 unmoderated subreddits. They can close the subreddits, pay someone to moderate, try to pawn them off on a new sucker, or have bots run the subreddits. The question is, in the meantime, will the spammers abuse Reddit like their mods are being abused by Reddit? Let Reddit deal with these problems. If you’re a mod, why are you giving your time away for free to a company that doesn’t care about you?
If you’re a mod, I get that you care about your subreddit, but why waste your talent on someone who thinks your concerns are just noise?
The Minecraft Devs left Reddit:
Leave Reddit? To quote Din Djarin, “This is the way.”
I love how their CEO believes - is absolutely convinced - that launching a crusade against his product’s users and mods to be a winning strategy.
I don’t think he knows what he’s doing… in his mind he’s running the last meter of the finish line to the IPO when all these “problems” are cropping up for “no reason” and he just wants to finish the race
If they’re that important then pay them.
One of the comments on the Verge article, that I agree with:
There’s nothing wrong with the mods being volunteers. Reddit just needs to respect them (and the other users) more. In fact if the mods were paid employees there’d just be even less standing in the way of these administration deuchebag moves. And I think that if they were paid hires there’d be less assurance that the mods were truly interested in the subject matter of their subs - I’m just hypothesizing there. Anyway I don’t think the volunteer model wasn’t working. It’s the admin layer outside the mods that’s broken.
Wikipedia is proof that volunteers are very useful. But when you build a site like that, is better to keep your profit obsession low, be glad you are leaving something useful for humanity while living a comfortable life.
Yeah, people will do something just for fun, to profit personally, or to spite someone
The moment they realize someone is making money off it, they start getting FOMO - humans are very loss adverse. No one wants to miss out on free money
But what if they had turned around and said, “fine, we’ll start hiring you guys. You’ll get paid hourly, but you’ll have to do the proper paperwork, be given guidelines from corporate, reviewed on your performance regularly, and you might be relocated to undermoderated subs”?
Most of them wouldn’t be into it - they don’t actually want to work for Reddit, they just don’t like feeling like someone else is sitting back and living off their work while they get nothing. The reality is, they’re not doing a job, and they generally don’t want to be (there’s a difference between a job and work, especially work that benefits others vs a job protecting the cash cow)
When someone does a service for you, you act grateful and offer them lemonade and gift cards, you don’t try to turn it into a job, and you sure as hell don’t break their tools and ask when they’ll get back to work
Or, I know this is crazy, don’t piss them off when you already make their money?
No one needs to pay them. Not being treated like garbage is sufficient.
If the company is treating you as an employee, they are required to pay you. There is precedent for this.
You think those “open or else” threats are taking Reddit closer to that conclusion?
I think they are getting closer to else
IANAL (oh yes, I do): As soon as Reddit The Company started exerting unilateral control over subreddits and their moderators for business purposes, and not legal or liability purposes, they most definitely were treating mods as employees.
The TOS definitely gives them quite a lot of leeway there. While TOS obviously don’t supersede actual law, if unpaid internships that are clearly doing actual labor are generally allowed to exist, I’m skeptical that what is explicitly called a volunteer moderator position would run afoul of the law.
AOL had volunteer assistants. Ultima Online had volunteer assistants. The courts ruled that those were employee positions based on the way those positions were managed.
Don’t even get me started on unpaid internships.
Fair enough, I wasn’t aware of there being any precedent there. However, at least from those two cases, it seems that they were both settled out of court, so there hasn’t actually been a legally binding ruling on this kind of issue.
To be clear, I’m not saying that unpaid internships etc. are good; only that I’m not sure a court would find them to be literally illegal (regardless of whether or not I think they should be).
Unpaid internships are legal so long as the business receives no value from the intern, and the courts would uphold that, if ever a case came before them about it.
In practice, the only people who have the option of taking an unpaid internship - where they have to spend many hours a week in a workplace that doesn’t pay them, to the exclusion of spending those hours in a workplace that does pay them - are already finanically stable enough to do so, probably because of generational wealth. AOL and UO were exceptions, probably because people wanted to participate in those communities in their spare time, as a kind of hobby.
Those people are being inducted into the system that propagates that generational wealth. It’s not in their best interest to protest not being paid when they should be, because the repercussions of doing so would be being excluded from that system. So it’s highly unlikely that any real “this should be a paid internship” case would ever be filed. The amount of hours which would be ordered to be compensated, even if it was treble damages, wouldn’t be worth the cost of going to court, let alone being excluded from whatever industry.
Idk if it matters what happens to reddit. It would just be nice to have something better. Its hard to see though how reddit can progress anywhere now.
