Also, he got shit done. He wasn’t a technical genius, but he and the team he built could pitch the shit out of products. Apple’s value has rarely been in its technical superiority, but in branding.
“Asshole” is the word for a guy who likes to cut people off in traffic. I think there’s probably a more appropriate word for someone who emotionally manipulates you over the course of years so you’re continually a nervous wreck and can be destroyed any time it’s convenient for him. Seriously if you haven’t watched the interview I linked at least look at the first couple of minutes.
And at the end of the day, who did this behavior actually benefit? Steve helped make Apple a lot of money, sure, but where did most of that money go? It didn’t go to the employees he abused, that’s for sure. But maybe Apple products ended up benefitting society as a whole, and without Steve we wouldn’t have had that? Well you already said that more often than not Apple’s success didn’t have anything to do with technical superiority.
The fact that people like this (Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, etc) often head successful companies isn’t an example of how beneficial they are, it’s an example of how broken our system is.
It shows how important having a charismatic person is to make any venture a success. We’re all humans with limited time on the earth. We can’t possibly experience everything. All we see and do is filtered out of necessity. A charismatic advocate of a product/movement/idea can get people to pay attention.
The best musician in history is probably unknown because they didn’t have a good manager/agent.
The greatest painting ever made was probably thrown away because nobody ever knew about it.
In my personal experience I’ve had to go out of my way to find every quality product I’ve ever purchased, from dishwasher detergent to heat pumps, and none of them were the ones with the highest advertising budgets. You’re right that we all have limited time and can’t possibly evaluate every single thing that exists, but hype men don’t help with that. The professional liars and manipulators that work in advertising only add to the noise and make it take longer to arrive at a conclusion. For example the fact that there are the 12 different brands of space heaters that come in different sizes and shapes and at different price points despite all performing the exact same way. It’s like that with literally everything, from bar soap, to maple syrup, to sunscreen.
I think this way because I am autistic. I honestly cannot imagine feeling the need for hype men. The phrase “you need hype men” sounds to me like “you need your abuser, you cannot live without them”.
Something like 35% of autistic people attempt suicide because of what the original post describes (and not just in science, but in every aspect of the world). And yeah, I think if I had to work for someone like Steve Jobs or Elon Musk I would as well.
I’m very much the same way. Sales people are just give me hints of what not to trust and usually fold under any sustained inquiry about their product. Skilled sales people know when to turn me over to their subject matter expert. We get to geek and I actually learn a thing or two about their product and, often times, the state of the industry.
One of the things the above post doesn’t include are the people who championed her. Between Elliot Barnathan, the cardiologist whose lab she was initially hired into, to David Langer, the resident who was able to get her a job in neurosurgery department, she was lucky enough to have someone who could do the hype while she did her work brilliantly.
In the publishing world, a great editor can recognize the genius of a writer, give quality feedback, and protect them from the moneyed interests.
I don’t know if I’d call these people hype men, as they were so much more than hype, but they definitely hype the genius of the patronee.
You “need” them because the society we live in is built around them. It’s the same reason you are forced to learn how to mask - you “need” to mask to survive, to put food on the table, to have a home and a bed to sleep in. This world is commanded by the manipulators, shaped and molded by the manipulators, and if you don’t have the skills to swindle your drop of money in the form of a grant in research or investment into your company, your project just dies. Everyone hates it (except the manipulators), but that’s just how things are at the moment.
Just because there are evil charismatic people doesn’t mean there’s no value to charismatic people in general.
I have a lot of charisma. It’s my superpower. I had a million jobs when I was young. From preacher to pipeline designer to manager to salesman to home builder - I was aimless. But I could always connect with others.
When I was a retail worker I was always the guy with the rave customer reviews. When I was in retail management I was given a department that was in the bottom 10% of performance in the company and within a year I had the number 3 department in the country (about 200 store locations with 10 departments each). When I was in sales I always had the best numbers.
I’m great at connecting to people, which I realize now means I’m also good at manipulating them. It’s not something I was conscious of back then. I didn’t set out to do it. I studied my products carefully to understand what made them great and never tried to sell a product I didn’t believe in. But the reality is that I could have mislead others.
I’ve found better uses of my talent as I’ve aged. I have 2 jobs now. One is my main gig in municipal government where I fill a public-facing role that often requires charisma, as saying “no” to powerful people in a politically-charge field is a huge part of my job.
The other is teaching nights and weekends at a major university. Nothing important - mostly scuba stuff with the occasional seminar course. My main class is underwater photography, which I enjoy because it’s a neat intersection of art, sport, technology, and science.
But the main thing I do with my university classes is try and help young people get plugged in with a network that will support them. Finding a good career is all about who you know, and though my time working in so many fields I know everybody.
a relevant example, given your story, is a student who tool my photography class a few years ago who was often overlooked by others because of her autism. She managed to connect with me and shared some of her graphic design projects she’d been working on. They were amazing. She wanted to be a full-time graphic designer, but she couldn’t get through an interview or a pitch without panicking or alienating others.
I hired her for a few projects for the dive shop to build up her resume of real-world experience and started recommending her to others. It worked, and she is now a successful graphic designer for a local merchandising company, where her focus is on the art and the design and others focus on the sales and the pitches.
She had incredible talent. I didn’t have her artistic skills, but I could recognize talent and I can sell anything. So I sold her. I don’t take any credit for what she does - the talent is all her. But I do think that my ability to connect people has had a positive impact on her life.
I’ve noticed that everywhere I’ve worked I have connected with a person like that, for better or worse. I’m really bad at the people part of things but great at technical stuff. Unfortunately for the non people savvy it’s hard to distinguish who is trying to use you vs who really wants to team up with you and help you as well as themselves… Yes Apple needed a Jobs to sell themselves, but it seems Jobs viewed Woz as an end to a goal, and not the partner/ human being who helped him get there.
Jobs was an asshole.
Also, he got shit done. He wasn’t a technical genius, but he and the team he built could pitch the shit out of products. Apple’s value has rarely been in its technical superiority, but in branding.
“Asshole” is the word for a guy who likes to cut people off in traffic. I think there’s probably a more appropriate word for someone who emotionally manipulates you over the course of years so you’re continually a nervous wreck and can be destroyed any time it’s convenient for him. Seriously if you haven’t watched the interview I linked at least look at the first couple of minutes.
And at the end of the day, who did this behavior actually benefit? Steve helped make Apple a lot of money, sure, but where did most of that money go? It didn’t go to the employees he abused, that’s for sure. But maybe Apple products ended up benefitting society as a whole, and without Steve we wouldn’t have had that? Well you already said that more often than not Apple’s success didn’t have anything to do with technical superiority.
The fact that people like this (Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, etc) often head successful companies isn’t an example of how beneficial they are, it’s an example of how broken our system is.
It shows how important having a charismatic person is to make any venture a success. We’re all humans with limited time on the earth. We can’t possibly experience everything. All we see and do is filtered out of necessity. A charismatic advocate of a product/movement/idea can get people to pay attention.
The best musician in history is probably unknown because they didn’t have a good manager/agent.
The greatest painting ever made was probably thrown away because nobody ever knew about it.
Hype men are necessary.
In my personal experience I’ve had to go out of my way to find every quality product I’ve ever purchased, from dishwasher detergent to heat pumps, and none of them were the ones with the highest advertising budgets. You’re right that we all have limited time and can’t possibly evaluate every single thing that exists, but hype men don’t help with that. The professional liars and manipulators that work in advertising only add to the noise and make it take longer to arrive at a conclusion. For example the fact that there are the 12 different brands of space heaters that come in different sizes and shapes and at different price points despite all performing the exact same way. It’s like that with literally everything, from bar soap, to maple syrup, to sunscreen.
I think this way because I am autistic. I honestly cannot imagine feeling the need for hype men. The phrase “you need hype men” sounds to me like “you need your abuser, you cannot live without them”.
Something like 35% of autistic people attempt suicide because of what the original post describes (and not just in science, but in every aspect of the world). And yeah, I think if I had to work for someone like Steve Jobs or Elon Musk I would as well.
I’m very much the same way. Sales people are just give me hints of what not to trust and usually fold under any sustained inquiry about their product. Skilled sales people know when to turn me over to their subject matter expert. We get to geek and I actually learn a thing or two about their product and, often times, the state of the industry.
One of the things the above post doesn’t include are the people who championed her. Between Elliot Barnathan, the cardiologist whose lab she was initially hired into, to David Langer, the resident who was able to get her a job in neurosurgery department, she was lucky enough to have someone who could do the hype while she did her work brilliantly.
In the publishing world, a great editor can recognize the genius of a writer, give quality feedback, and protect them from the moneyed interests.
I don’t know if I’d call these people hype men, as they were so much more than hype, but they definitely hype the genius of the patronee.
You “need” them because the society we live in is built around them. It’s the same reason you are forced to learn how to mask - you “need” to mask to survive, to put food on the table, to have a home and a bed to sleep in. This world is commanded by the manipulators, shaped and molded by the manipulators, and if you don’t have the skills to swindle your drop of money in the form of a grant in research or investment into your company, your project just dies. Everyone hates it (except the manipulators), but that’s just how things are at the moment.
Agreed. I’m not going to pretend it’s a good thing though.
Just because there are evil charismatic people doesn’t mean there’s no value to charismatic people in general.
I have a lot of charisma. It’s my superpower. I had a million jobs when I was young. From preacher to pipeline designer to manager to salesman to home builder - I was aimless. But I could always connect with others.
When I was a retail worker I was always the guy with the rave customer reviews. When I was in retail management I was given a department that was in the bottom 10% of performance in the company and within a year I had the number 3 department in the country (about 200 store locations with 10 departments each). When I was in sales I always had the best numbers.
I’m great at connecting to people, which I realize now means I’m also good at manipulating them. It’s not something I was conscious of back then. I didn’t set out to do it. I studied my products carefully to understand what made them great and never tried to sell a product I didn’t believe in. But the reality is that I could have mislead others.
I’ve found better uses of my talent as I’ve aged. I have 2 jobs now. One is my main gig in municipal government where I fill a public-facing role that often requires charisma, as saying “no” to powerful people in a politically-charge field is a huge part of my job.
The other is teaching nights and weekends at a major university. Nothing important - mostly scuba stuff with the occasional seminar course. My main class is underwater photography, which I enjoy because it’s a neat intersection of art, sport, technology, and science.
But the main thing I do with my university classes is try and help young people get plugged in with a network that will support them. Finding a good career is all about who you know, and though my time working in so many fields I know everybody.
a relevant example, given your story, is a student who tool my photography class a few years ago who was often overlooked by others because of her autism. She managed to connect with me and shared some of her graphic design projects she’d been working on. They were amazing. She wanted to be a full-time graphic designer, but she couldn’t get through an interview or a pitch without panicking or alienating others.
I hired her for a few projects for the dive shop to build up her resume of real-world experience and started recommending her to others. It worked, and she is now a successful graphic designer for a local merchandising company, where her focus is on the art and the design and others focus on the sales and the pitches.
She had incredible talent. I didn’t have her artistic skills, but I could recognize talent and I can sell anything. So I sold her. I don’t take any credit for what she does - the talent is all her. But I do think that my ability to connect people has had a positive impact on her life.
I’ve noticed that everywhere I’ve worked I have connected with a person like that, for better or worse. I’m really bad at the people part of things but great at technical stuff. Unfortunately for the non people savvy it’s hard to distinguish who is trying to use you vs who really wants to team up with you and help you as well as themselves… Yes Apple needed a Jobs to sell themselves, but it seems Jobs viewed Woz as an end to a goal, and not the partner/ human being who helped him get there.
ok, everyone has hype men now. Everyone is charismatic now. Now what, will the greatest be found? We’re just back to square one.