The enlightened centrism is strong in this one. No, the US don’t have a conflict of left vs. right. The conflict is between the right and everyone else. And most of the right are just rubes who think they being part of some kind of movement but in reality are just being fleeced by a bunch of grifters
Not just the right vs. everyone else, the right vs. everyone. The right is also fighting itself.
The left is also fighting itself. Literally the comment chains in this post are prime examples.
People who probably align with the majority of the stances, tearing each other down with bad faith arguments, grandstanding over the remaining things they disagree on.
“Perfect is the enemy of good.”
I might not politically align with the average .ml user, but my views are a hell of a lot closer aligned with them than MAGAt views.
The left largely fights by arguing, which can lead to better ideas if people are open to listen. That isn’t always the case, but it’s a possibility. The right is fighting with homicide.
Liberals perceive criticism for enabling the right and opposing the left at every opportunity as left in-fighting.
The left identifies the liberals as part of the right.
Right of what?
I’d say the curve it’s much flatter on the left side. As in right side is shouting tankie, meanwhile there are like 2 tankies and the right wants to set the whole barn on fire to get them both.
Meanwhile thr Tankies are in the Right’s barn the entire time.
Doesn’t directly bringing up “enlightened centrism” (I assume sarcastically) from a non-right position indicate disdain for centrism? That would be a conflict between whatever you are and both centrists (for not being where you are - right of you, but to them, still left of the Right) and the Right.
Also, if you’re aware of the Three Percenters and their claim that only 3% of colonial America supported the revolution, it means that even if they’re off by a factor of 10, with 30% for the revolution, and 30% against, it leaves 40%, a plurality of people, who have the sentiment from this meme where they just want to be left alone and not forced against their will into a conflict that indroduces instability and violence to their lives.
“Enlightened centrism” is not the same as centrism and yes that label is meant to be sarcastic. There are basically two kinds of enlightened centrists. One are right-wingers who want to avoid the social stigma of being far right. The other one are people who close their eyes to the blatant attempt by the right wing to destroy democracy and pretend everything is normal. That’s what basically the corporate media are doing.
OK, so just to recap:
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You start off by deriding anyone that isn’t carrying the same label as you as either evil or stupid.
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Immediately and unironically say that it’s only the Right vs. everyone else after just saying that it’s the Left vs. everyone else because they’re either wearing your label or they’re Secret Hitler or an idiot.
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Double down and imagine that everyone actually has secret but strong political feelings and simply are confused or too chicken shit to reveal them, but that all the secret opinions of average people are not just mildly conservative, but actually full-on far-right?
My friend, I’m not sure you understand how many people don’t spend 18 hours a day online reading political news. Because that’s exactly how you end up alienating normal people who are all out of fucks to give about politics, and fracturing opposition to fascism like you’re doing here. You’re not helping anyone but the fascists by calling the people stuck in the middle fascists for just trying to live their lives.
Case in point, this is a shitpost comm and you’re too wrapped up in your self-labeling to read the room and the meme that most people don’t care about the things you care about. That’s the meme, and lesson, that you missed.
Polls are usually pretty consistent in that the majority of people (usually between about 65% to sometimes up to 80%): 1) Don’t actually care about politics at all, which is a big part of why we have a representative democracy in the first place, 2) Certainly don’t keep up with political news or even the actual news that much, 3) Are so self-absorbed and wrapped up in their own affairs that until the rapid disintegration of the nation and Constitution affects them specifically, they won’t even notice because they have a job and kids and a universe of other shit to be doing so they want the status quo always, whatever that was.
Which is all supported in depth by game theory studies about what it takes to get people out in the streets. Which you clearly can’t be bothered to think about because we’re all secret nazis and idiots you wouldn’t associate with in the streets, right?
You’re taking the same bait that Mandella fought against people taking in South Africa. Apartheid specialized in turning everyone who wasn’t white against each other. Fracturing opposition was how a small minority stayed in power for generations.
Which is exactly how the GOP managed to work out Red Stating and Gerrymander me and my formerly solid blue district into a solid red district. That’s not on me. That’s on you for fracturing opposition to fascism, like you’re happily doing here, because all the rest of us aren’t “pure” enough - because most people are either secret Nazis or idiots, right? I get the same shit from the GOP, but they actually accomplish the shit they set out to do, so at least I have something to react against.
For the people who not only do care about politics, but also hate every bit of it and just want people to shut the fuck up and do rational policy stuff without egos like big boys and girls, it’s cringe to see shit like “Hur durr, all Centrists are just closeted Nazis!” because it undoes coalition; it accomplishes exactly what fascists love to see - infighting among their opposition. You give them power like this, with uninformed blanket statements that alienate people who actually ARE fighting these people and now know that you can’t be counted on as an ally. But that’s fine, I know for sure that I 100% can not count on the Left to accomplish a damn thing because y’all are too enthralled with the Old Money Traditional Branding BS the Dems offer you so they can once again use you up to trot out Candidate Dickbag and get you genuinely thinking “yeah, this time, they’re gonna win!” before they lose again and steal your money and time and energy.
But I expect you stopped reading 4 words in and said to yourself “yeah, secret Nazi I think. Or idiot. Either way, I have to hate that one, too” and turned away an ally once again.
Edit: Downvote all you want - look at exactly what the Democrats are doing to the Left right now. This is not an appeal to centrism - this is a party appeal to stay in power because they’ve fucked themselves.
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Anyone who stands against genocide and opposes war has been lumped in with “tankie” for a long while now. That centrist is empowering the Nazis.
Thank you.
Because being a passive centrist while the world slides towards authoritarianism, global conflict, and environmental holocaust is not morally acceptable.
You don’t have to be a Tankie to want to fight these fascist fucks and their suicidal agenda.
I mean a lot of people don’t want to have their way of life userped by these radical idiots. One side is calling for a civil war and the other side is effectively campaigning for concentration camps. Normal people don’t want to engage with either brand of insanity. They just want to go to work and go home, spend time with their family.
The left is not calling for a Civil War. They’re demanding basic human rights for everyone, and the capitalists have made it clear they’d rather kill everyone.
If you feel equally threatened by the left and the right, it’s because you support fascism. You just prefer a lighter flavor of it that you benefit from.
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tankies are such a small niche group, i dont think theres enough of them to have a significant on policy, unlike right wingers have real numbers on thier hands.
They run TikTok among many other CCP funded operations, I wouldn’t disregard them personally.
Lol
The tankies engaged in hypercapitalism
Unironically yes, to a Tankie the word Capitalism doesn’t mean Capitalism, it means western nation adversarial to China and their military allies.
This is bullshit
Trying to pretend that there’s a concerted far-left effort to create civil war in 'Murica is patently absurd
Sure, there may be a handful of nutters, but they pale in comparison to the number of far-right who are actively lusting for the blood of the people they hate and fear
Trying to pretend that there’s a concerted far-left effort to create civil war in 'Murica is patently absurd
Idk man, I spent altogether too much time over in .ml, and now my view on what is “far left” has changed quite drastically. And that group certainly seems hell bent on starting a civil war.
There are absolutely far more MAGAs, but the tankies are, unfortunately, still far left.
Bruh there’s like a triple-digit number of tankies in all of North America lmao. Meanwhile half of the USA is MAGA. If you need to visualize this, go look for literally any act of violence motivated by far-left beliefs. There’s what, like two in the last 30 years? Claiming any sort of equivalence between MAGA and the left is just false.
Who over at .ml is trying to start a civil war?
Let’s be honest, the Nazis and Tankies align on like 98% of policy. They both support Donald Trump, for example. They both enable ethnostates to send minorities to camps. They believe in a nation ruled by one supreme absolute leader.
They both support Donald Trump, for example.
lmao what?
They both enable ethnostates to send minorities to camps.
lmao what?
They believe in a nation ruled by one supreme absolute leader.
Dictatorship of the proletariat doesn’t mean total rule by one dude named proletariat, it means total rule by the people.
Dictatorship of the proletariat doesn’t mean total rule by one dude named proletariat, it means total rule by the people.
Tankies want a vanguard of the best brightest to lead and educate the proletariat into a new “socialist” future. Conveniently, the best and brightest happens to be them and their homies.
They also just so happen to have a new vision of socialist utopianism of you working in a sweat shop for 14 hours a day and eating rationed food while they sip fine wines and write bullshit very online mutants will recite as scripture in the future.
Instead of listening to anticommunists from a century ago, why don’t we compare what communists have done in China over 50 years to their neighbor, India? One of those countries exports food for a profit while the children of the laborers who picked that food suffer from malnutrition. Or why don’t we look at life expectancy in Cuba today and before the revolution. You can even compare Cuba to their capitalist ruled neighbors.
To quote Michael Parenti:
If Communists, if we Leftists, if we Marxists, if we revolutionaries, if we progressives, if we—all we want is to hunger for power, then why do we side with the powerless? Then why don’t we toady up to power? Why don’t we take the road of the Henry Kissingers and the Patrick—Daniel Patrick Moynihans and the Zbigniew Brzezinskis and the Eugene V. Rostows and the McGeorge Bundys, who toady up and mouth for power? When Henry Kissinger was made National Security Advisor for Richard Nixon, Nelson Rockefeller gave him fifty-thousand bucks as a going-away present.
Tankies support China and the USSR, neither of which have ever practiced rule by the proletariat, and of which the remainder is committing their own little genocide at home.
Weird how they brought a billion farmers out of poverty. I wonder why they would do that if those farmers didn’t have any influence.
We certainly don’t see that happening in capitalist countries right nextdoor, such as India.
the remainder is committing their own little genocide at home
lol you still believe that? Anybody can literally just go to Xinjiang, there’s no travel restrictions. Don’t you think they would try to keep foreigners from going there and talking to people if they were committing a genocide?
Thank you for being a perfect example of the point I was making, enjoy your dead minorities and your roads paved in the blood of the innocent.
Ah yes, if you oppose capitalism too much, you just start hating minorities. That’s just horseshoe theory. They wouldn’t teach it in schools if it wasn’t true.
Definitely don’t come to China, Vietnam, or Cuba and check for yourself, just trust your government.
Honestly wouldn’t go there if you paid me, but I respect the journalists brave enough to do so.
wouldn’t go there if you paid me
Why? Vietnam is beautiful, experiencing towns built around bikes instead of cars and being able to buy good meal for 1.20 USD is good for your soul. China is the most developed country in the world right now, and I’m planning to go back in a month or so. I haven’t been, but I hear Cuba has lovely beaches and rum.
Were you under the impression these places were dangerous?
These liberals and their “both-siding” will be the death of us all
When I have centrist views about anything (not just politics but more trivial matters like pop culture), I’m reluctant to share them online because extremists on both sides interpret you as an extremist on the opposing side
Centrist views such as? grabs popcorn
No seriously, what do you happen to be sitting on the fence about?
Centrism doesn’t mean sitting on a fence. It means most of the time understanding that both sides are right and wrong at the same time, I often see the problem identified correctly but the solution that is prescribed is absolutely incorrect.
Here are some centrist positions.
We need to stop unfettered immigration, so closing the borders is great, locking up and kicking out immigrants who have committed legal offenses is good, and we should expedite that process but we shouldn’t be kidnapping or profiling people. We shouldn’t be giving economic assistance to illegal immigrants. I know it doesn’t happen at the federal level but it does happen at the state level.
Banning guns won’t solve the violence problem, guns don’t kill people people kill people. American violence is caused by inequality and lack of mental healthcare. Solve that instead of taking guns away.
We should have higher taxes, universal healthcare and stronger safety nets but also much less regulation because most of it is actually designed to protect the incumbent corporations. Free the markets as much as possible, but never bail out a single corporation that fails, bail out the employees.
Increasing the minimum wage does nothing.
Instead of relying on underpaid immigrant labor the US should stop giving cash and tax subsidies to farmers and instead directly subsidize their wages by paying the employees directly. This is my middle of the road solution, we should actually consider nationalization of farms. One of the few things where that could work right now because I think nationalization in general leads to terrible mismanagement. But farms are already inefficient, corrupt and mismanaged and also living on the government tits so we might as well.
Justifying things as “scientific” when the science is social science and the results are not reproducible is intellectually dishonest, and is rampant in discourse about various topics nowadays. The academia brought upon themselves the mistrust they have garnered. This is good because universities have become job training centers and they were never meant to be that, so maybe we’re due for a little creative destruction.
I could continue, but I got shit to do.
So you’re leaving the US, considering you’re an illegal immigrant here right? I mean, unless you’re indigenous it seems pretty illegal for you to claim any right to live here and boot others out. See the issue with saying people are illegal?
“Living on the governments tit” is straight up right-winger bullshit. We pay taxes, why the fuck should the government hoard that money and use it on shit that doesn’t benefit the people? That is the ENTIRE FUCKING POINT of a government, to pool resources and skills to better society as a whole.
You think science is bullshit and that higher education should be “creatively” destroyed. How you think that isn’t fascism is some serious mental gymnastics.
You could continue, but you know your viewpoint is hard right and you’re too cowardly to stick around and defend your bullshit because your fragile fee-fees will be hurt.
Free open borders doesn’t work unless everyone, literally everyone is working on the same legal framework . This could be good long term project for humanity but as it stands right now now, national divisions matter. You can’t have people that weren’t born here overwhelming our nation and getting aid when our own people are suffering economic hardship. The problem with people like you is that you want everything now, and that’s not possible except through extreme violence and often ends up not solving the problems. I would love to be able to remake the system from the top down, but we know that never ends right.
I don’t think science is bullshit, I think non reroducible experiments are not science. I love science, but the social sciences in the present exist in the same stage of development as medicine was in the Middle Ages. This is a provable fact. Universities need to be centers of knowledge again and not job training centers.
Like someone pointed out, I said corporations are living off the government tit, that’s a fact. I would prefer if the tit was feeding us instead. I think I made it very clear that I’m pro social safety nets.
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Our nation is not overwhelmed with immigrants stealing our jobs and resources, as much as fox news has convinced you that is the case. It’s in fact fascists and capitalists doing that, not that I expect you understand the difference between the working class and capiltalist class.The problem with you people, to use your phrasing, is you think there are MS13 members on every block shooting Americans and taking their paychecks, but “the left” is covering it up.
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You keep saying there are studies and provable facts showing science is fake. Let’s see it, show us your peer reviewed sources showing us how fake science is.
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You did not say corporations. You said farms. Should I quote it back to you? Here: “But farms are already inefficient, corrupt, and mismanaged and also living on the government tits”. No coincidence that the Trump regime says the same shit and is cutting agriculture funding and instead lining billionaire pockets, which brings us back to point one. Though I’d imagine you think the leftist immigrants are also the CEOs
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I don’t think that, but I do know that if 1 singe American is having a hard time while we are helping 1 illegal immigrant, then we are doing something wrong and it will breed resentment.
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You are a bad faith argumenter. I’ve never said science is fake, I’ve said that social science (though it also happens in the natural sciences to a lesser degree) is not really science, not with any degree of certainty as physics etc. here’s a little summary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis?wprov=sfti1
but searching in Google Scholar or JSTOR will bring up many many studies about the problem. So when people say “the science backs this” using a social science study that is not replicable, it takes two brain cells to realize that no, there is no science backing such a claim.
- Yes I also meant farms which are also very often corporations. And that’s what I said in my very first comment, the Trump administration says a lot of things that are right (they say a lot more that are wrong but they are not wrong about everything ), but they use it to serve their interests instead of actually solving the problems. Farmers are the biggest enemies of any of the solutions to many of the problems in America, we should nationalize the whole industry at this point because it cannot exist without government subsidies and yet they use the money to lobby against environmental and immigration reforms. They like the status quo. But if you don’t want to nationalize them we can stop subsidizing them and simply subsidize their wages directly in such a way that they can pay living wages instead of relying on immigrant labor.
But again you are arguing in bad faith and I do not think that you have any coherent ideology that isn’t “oppose everything the other guys do”.
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Imagine looking at the current state of the USA and saying “communists are the problem!”
