SQL? Toy?
This is a very bad chart:
- I don’t understand what Toy Lang, Nu Lang or even System Lang mean
- How are C and Assembly obsolete?
- How is C++ more obsolete than D or Go?
- PHP still powers a large portion of the internet, certainly not a “Toy Lang”
- Why is ECMAScript here and not JavaScript?
Downvoting.
Yes, SQL is but a toy language. It probably will never make it into production.
how is python to the right and mojo at the bottom.
What is Fortran’s actual address on this visualization?
Asking for a friend.
How is C or assembly obsolete when they are literally everywhere is beyond me
C is more obsolete than Rust. Coding directly in assembly is rare. Beyond that it’s more subjective.
Coding directly in assembly is rare.
I used to think that, but when you’re dealing with a lot of low-level stuff you’ll eventually realize that Compilers are pretty bad at generating fast and reliable Assembly where it’s needed. Also, some Architectures have specific machine instructions that Compilers just don’t take advantage of, no matter what flags you enable.
Also, some Architectures have specific machine instructions that Compilers just don’t take advantage of, no matter what flags you enable.
Interesting. Do you have some examples?
Writing those frequently-called leaf functions in assembly has certainly far outlived it’s use in other places. But, the word on the street, or I guess the conventional wisdom, is that compilers have gradually caught up even there.
The C which is an integral part of every linux kernel on every computer and server running linux as the OS and all the embedded systems everywhere and almost all the performance critical parts of python libraries?
I won’t have much to say about assembly since don’t use it but far as I know low level parts of OS such as bootloader likely still uses assembly not to also mention embedded systems.
As long as both of these exist in embedded systems, it is just statistically weird to call it obsolete even in regards to other languages.
For instance data scientists majorly use python, but python critically depends on C and devices they use critically depend on C and assembly. Can you then really say what they do does not depend on C and assembly and python is more widely used?
Many games are still hand optimised in assembly, at least the inner loops.
Compilers are pretty damn good at doing that by now.
I can believe there’s some direct assembly usage down in the depths of Unity and Unreal engines, but the average game dev is probably not going to touch it.
I’d agree that the average game dev is on Unity or unreal and won’t be hand optimizing any inner loops.
But there are a surprising amount of studios still on their own tech and there the low-level engineers definitely do (I’ve worked in the industry and have seen it first hand - and done it myself).
It also tends to be at the start of a console’s life span before the compiler and linker is mature up against the hardware.
So, the Linux kernel is already partially moved over to Rust. It’s probably in the Python ecosystem too, although I can’t actually say.
More obsolete was a deliberate word choice. Hell, even COBOL is still used.
yea but Rust is not above %80 of the languages in the chart. It is not just a matter of C being more obsolete than Rust it is more like C being one of the most obsolete in the chart. Can’t call it that until it is replaced %80 by something else in systems that exists world-wide and everywhere.
I’d actually use some kind of projected future to define obsoleteness. Like, fossil fuels are obsolete relative to renewables, because there’s going to be more going forwards even though there’s more fossil fuels right now.
Athough, I have no idea if Mojo or Nim are going anywhere, and Brainfuck isn’t. Maybe there’s a dimension of novelty that’s also flattened into that axis.
I don’t get what toy lang means?
For playing with, rather than ‘serious’ projects
The opposite of system language, especially as many scripting languages have “beginner” features, like a single number type instead of integers and floats, dynamic types.
I would call that a high level language. Like, the further you abstract from the hardware, the higher level the language.
Calling it a “toy” language implies that it isn’t useful. You have languages in there that are incredibly useful, like SQL, that basically run the entire internet.
How is Lua further down along the Nu Lang axis than Go, Rust and Nim?
Yeah, that one caught my eye too. Brainfuck is also pretty old IIRC, and it’s hiding down there in the bottom right.
And I bet this is based in opinion and not any sort of scientific understanding because you put assembly as an obsolete language…
I read that as “directly, without a compiler”, in which case it’s close to fair, although I would have still put it ahead of COBOL because sometimes it’s necessary.
Should it not say “machine code” then? It would still be bizarre to call it obsolete, given that it’s literally the foundation of all the other languages in the chart. It’s like saying letters are obsolete because we have words now.
Why? An assembler isn’t the same thing as a compiler. (Although, I’m not personally sure where the dividing line is. Where would literally just an assembler with loops instead of goto classify?)
The practice of directly using assembly is relatively obsolete. To bootstrap you might have to a bit, but writing Rollercoaster Tycoon in it was already an anachronism. I’m not really sure how to fit that into your analogy, because there’s no word-compilers in wide use. If voice-to-text had became that dominant, typing would be obsolete, I guess.
“Obsolete Lang” is more of a looks category, and back then most programming languages were not much dissimilar from it. Basically Assembly had to stay unstructured due to how CPUs work, while the industry moved on.
SQL isn’t a toy language, it’s a domain specific language.
Yeah, but 3D political compasses just don’t have the same hold on people.
Fortran is NOT obsolete you take that shit back
Was it a deliberate choice to leave JavaScript off entirely?
ECMAScript is included, which is the official JavaScript standard
I actually did miss that one. TIL.
Interesting that it’s just as nu as TypeScript, despite TypeScript definitely coming after.
I roughly based the nu-obsolete scale on language features not age (or use), TypeScript is just ECMAScript with an optional type safety feature.
That’s… not the whole story. TypeScript is very powerful without users noticing. The most widely used feature is probably implicit
thisbinding in fat arrow functions, but also targeted compilation to lower ES standards. It’s not just type annotations à la Python.I see! So you’d say type safety is system-type feature, then?
It’s right above PHP.
Hahaha gottem XD
That’s just Java
On the off chance that you don’t already know, that’s a totally different thing named after the same drink.
I’ll pull out the emojis for this one.
👉️😎👉️
Assembly being obsolete has to be the funniest joke in here. It fundamentally never will be even if its use is niche
…and C++ being obsolete is the second funniest.
It is clearly surpassed by C though this chart seems to have missed that fact.
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The only way Assembly will be obsolete is if there were no new chips processor models being created.
Every time a new architecture or a new instruction group is announced, it has to be bootstrapped into the C compiler.
AKA: How to annoy a bunch of computer nerds very quickly…
Make one for Linux distros next!!!
By being wildly wrong you mean?
You say “wildly wrong”, they say “incentivizing engagement”.
So rage bait?
Precisely. Getting people upset is the foremost technique to farm engagement on social media. Sites such as Facebook even deliberately altered their algorithms to show content that will anger readers because it works so well to keep them invested.
Engagement bait is omnipresent and really obvious once you learn to spot it - even something as innocuous as one or two “accidental” typos in a meme to get people into the comments section.
You could rent yourself to translate corporate-speak in email and meetings
