Im having beers at bar ordered wings and tipped $2 everything the bartender brings me.
Beer = $6
tip for beer $2
wings = $20ish
Tip for wings from bartender = $2
Total tips = $4
==============================
Same order from waitress/er = $26
Tip = $5.20
Now I know this is micro example but extrapolate this over several drinks with food and the difference swings the other way. The question remains tho, am I tipping correctly?
Dont tip. Covid killed tipping, after covid you dont need to tip
I’m so glad I don’t live in a country where you’re expected to pay companies employees directly so they don’t have to. Even if someone goes above and beyond and is the greatest at their job time ever seen, I still don’t have to top up their pay cheque from my own pocket.
Every business using certain POS’s have a tip screen come up now, but I’ve never seen or heard of anyone selecting anything other than 0% thankfully.
The latest atrocity I’ve seen in tipping is at the attended checkout at a grocery store. These companies are leeches.
Its insane, I hated visiting there because tipping is so weird and ingrained like something theyncant explain. People will tell you its simple just do x, other say yeah well I do y, and the next I will only do y if abc otherwise I omly give x.
I just overpaid for everything there and considered it expensive and weird
I tip for 15%, everywhere I go where tips are expected. For drinks I tip 15%. It helps that I’m Canadian and almost all places I go they have machines, so it’s just easy.
You’re tipping too much.
In Michigan we passed a law requiring minimum wage for all tipped workers by 2030(?), and they FLIPPED THEIR SHIT. Said they would lose too much money in tips if they made minimum wage. The republicans rolled it back below minimum (still a small increase), and I’m not sure where it stands right now.
If tipped workers are going to fight against wage increases so much, then I’m okay reducing their tips.
there is already a federal law about it. Minimum is already minimum for everyone. Tipped positions simply let the employer save some of that money. If you didn’t tip, the employer must pay the full wage.
You also have a thing where the minimum wage is far below the actual market rate, the typical wage in the area, and actually making minimum wage is way less than any other job. Nobody wants 7.25 an hour unless you’re forced to.
Unpopular opinion, but maybe servers (and most everyone) deserve more than minimum wage. And I’m not saying the consumer should be paying it, they should be paid their money’s worth by their employer.
Michigan non-tip min wage is what like $10? Who the hell can survive on that?
Correct they deserve more and they should negotiate it with their employer, not people who out eating food and smd drinking
I agree tipping should go away, but I’m wondering how those economics would work out? Most food places barely break even, I can’t see anyone being able to pay their servers more, so they would still pass that onto the customers.
Add to this that people aren’t really smart. I remember some time ago, some places testing out paying their waiters, plus showing how much food would be with tax included with no surprised. People preferred paying more with tipping, the big price sticker drove business away.
Each item on the menu should be priced all in, including the tax.
The market will sort out the rest. If place can’t get enough business while paying a living wage, they should go out of business so somebody else can come in who can make it work. Econ 101. Food and bars are 100% discretionary spend.
Whatever is happening now is no benefiting anyone besides owners and some some high earning waiters/bar tenders.
These clowns got brazen post COVID, so we are due for a push back.
Most food places barely break even,
A lot of them fail but the profitable ones are profitable. Owners just don’t want you know that because… you would ask why they don’t pay better.
If they “deserve” more they’d get more. I’m not sure why so many Americans think that wait staff should be paid more - it’s pretty much the most unqualified job in the world that pretty much anyone can do.
Pay is based on skill, qualifications/expertise, and return on investment. If anyone can do a job, it’s not going to pay well. If you start paying servers 2x minimum wage then all of a sudden there are hundreds/thousands of other jobs that need a 2x or more higher wage bump, and all of a sudden you’re paying base tech support $200k a year, and inflation is 30% a year, and people complaining that servers deserve more than $60/hour because $60 only buys you a small coffee thanks to the hyper inflation you caused by paying them 2x minimum wage.
it’s pretty much the most unqualified job in the world that pretty much anyone can do.
How many years have you worked as a server that allowed you to make this assessment?
You’re not seriously going to argue that a job that requires no qualifications or skills and is regularly done by children is a difficult job, are you? I worked at mcdonalds back in the day during high school and uni, spent my fair share of time on the counter taking peoples orders. It’s not hard, which is why like I said, it’s a standard job for people with zero qualifications and who just need some money to keep them afloat.
Why do you think it’s not one of the most basic jobs that anyone can do?
That’s not a tipped job. Literally a job that forbids tips.
You are equating working fast food with the job a server performs.
I don’t know why or how and do not see that changing, potentially ever. You do not display any signs of the prerequisite intellectual curiosity to change your uninformed opinion on the matter.
Working fast food counters is “serving”. You’re taking orders and delivering food.
I’m sorry, but being a server is not a hard job. It’s not a job that requires any extra skills. It’s a job that pretty much anyone can do if they want to, hence the low pay, high turnover, and it being a “backup job” for people like struggling actors, uni students, etc.
Also can you please answer my questions?
-
You’re not seriously going to argue that a job that requires no qualifications or skills and is regularly done by children is a difficult job, are you?
-
Why do you think it’s not one of the most basic jobs that anyone can do?
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You are a free market maxi and this aint a free market. Chamber of commercie spends good money to lobby to suppress wages among other parasite.
This take is ignores this fact. why?
Minimum wage is the minimum they can be paid, not the maximum. If the job “deserves” more than minimum wage it will pay more than minimum wage.
“Servers” are a job that requires basically zero skills, and is often done by literal children. I’m sorry but if there was ever a job that was only deserving of minimum wage, it’s that one.
The minimum wage when it was instituted was designed to represent the minimum wage needed for a single worked to support a family.
Additionally all labor is skilled labor. You either need school or experience to perform a job. I can drop a highly educated neurosurgeon into a restaurant. Without instructions they will fail at the job.
Anyway, all labor deserves a living wage. If you work a full week you should be able to support yourself comfortably.
Additionally all labor is skilled labor.
No, it’s not. When people use the term “unskilled” for jobs it doesn’t mean “you literally have to have zero skills, not even the ability to user your hands, to do it” - it means you only need a limited skill set and is a job that has minimal economic value. Essentially it’s a job that anyone at any stage could walk into and be able to do with minimal training.
That has always been how the skilled/unskilled labor gap has been broken up. You might not like it, but that’s what it means. There is nothing about a server’s role that makes it a “skilled” job that requires highly specialized skills that someone would have to go and get qualifications and study for. It’s taking orders and carrying the orders out to people when someone else, often a skilled laborer like a chef for example, prepares them. Asking for drink orders and if everything is ok with the meal is not “skilled labor”.
Anyway, all labor deserves a living wage. If you work a full week you should be able to support yourself comfortably.
Agreed 100%. Unfortunately COVID (and everything since, like the “renewable energy” push) and most countries’ governments absolutely moronic handling of it has completely destroyed any hopes of this. Getting everyone from minimum wage workers upwards to be able to afford to “live comfortably” requires either a massive, massive recession with 50%+ deflation, or…well there’s really no other way. Maybe a UBI, and I wish more places would trial it, but apart from that there is no real solution that anyone has been able to suggest.
No, it’s not. When people use the term “unskilled” for jobs it doesn’t mean “you literally have to have zero skills, not even the ability to user your hands, to do it” - it means you only need a limited skill set and is a job that has minimal economic value. Essentially it’s a job that anyone at any stage could walk into and be able to do with minimal training.
That has always been how the skilled/unskilled labor gap has been broken up.
You’ve bought the lie they’ve been telling forever. Every person that goes to work is performing skilled labor. The only thing a person can do that doesn’t take any skill is being born rich.
Rich assholes that do nothing other than “invest” into a buisness. Every dime made from there is off the backs of working folks. Without our skills the wealthy would be poor.
You’ve bought the lie they’ve been telling forever.
I haven’t bought any lie, I’m telling you the definitions of skilled/unskilled labor that have been in use forever.
Every person that goes to work is performing skilled labor. The only thing a person can do that doesn’t take any skill is being born rich.
Ok so your idea of skill is simply…not dropping dead. Gotcha.
No matter what you want to think, serving tables is one of the easiest and least-skilled jobs in the world. It’s why literal kids do it, it’s why it’s paid less than minimum wage, and it’s why it’s a last resort for many of the people who do it. Literally anyone can know how to do it with maybe an hour of training from another server. It’s not a “skilled” job. It’s a “bare minimum of being able to function in a society” skill level job.
Let me ask you this -do you think that investing is a skill? Choosing what to invest in and when and how much?
I guarantee this person has never waited tables.
I mean they are required to be paid minimum at the end of the day anyways
If they don’t make tips at all, they get paid minimum wage. If they do they can be pets less as long as tips make up the difference.
I used to work for a payroll company who had a bunch of restaurant clients. Some of those servers made bank. I’d fight it as well.
LOL, you’re Mr. Pink in Reservoir Dogs. :)
You guys sound crazy
- non-american.
Couldn’t imagine tipping for EVERY drink, idk how I would keep track. I can barely afford drinks as it is. I once got tipped and I politely declined. It’s the responsibility of the workplace to pay fairly, not other people who are just trying to get by.
True but tipping was created generations ago for the wealthy to not have to pay living wages and it’s going to be as hard as taking guns away to get it to change. Remember, all this talk about “fair wages” and “equality” was planted and cultivated for a LONG time with a specific reason to hold down the poor and create different classes. It’s a shitty system getting worse by the day.
All you have to do is stop tipping. That’s literally all it would take.
in australia they serve bottles of water for free. so im not even out there buying drinks. some places have carbonated water for free too.
Free soft drink for designated Dave too.
oh for real? everywhere?
Every aspect of America is insufferable
And getting worse, or enshittified
For anyone who mightn’t know, tipping culture is rooted in slavery and exploitation. It existed in Europe to an extent but really spread its wings - like many awful European things - in the USA.
I support workers rights, but I don’t tip. The way I see it, if the place requires tips for their staff to get by, then the staff are being financially abused and I would be propping up a system of exploitation. Prioritise places that pay their staff above the minimum wage.
The way I see it, if the place requires tips for their staff to get by, then the staff are being financially abused and I would be propping up a system of exploitation. Prioritise places that pay their staff above the minimum wage.
Second sentence is fine, feel free to boycott places that pay below minimum wage. But if you do go to an establishment that pays based on the assumption of tips, and you don’t tip, you’re just joining in the exploitation.
you’re just joining in the exploitation
Actually no, they’re doing the only real thing that can be done to get rid of tipping. If no one tips, the business is forced to pay a deserving wage, which is at least minimum wage.
if you do go to an establishment that pays based on the assumption of tips
In the USA, there are only 7 US States (and Guam) which mandate that the minimum wage be paid prior to consideration of tips. All other states permit some fraction of tips to be considered as part of minimum wage, with some states limiting the employer contribution to as low as $2.13/hr.
This is indeed an absurd situation outside of those seven states, but it also means that it’s nigh impossible to avoid establishments that rely on tips to supplement wages, in the other 43 states.
With this background, I can understand why the earlier commenter views tipping as exploitative, for both the consumer and the staff. The result of either choice – boycotting places that pay less than minimum wage, or not tipping at those places – doesn’t change the fact that the staff are being underpaid, which is the root exploitative practice.
you’re just joining in the exploitation
I think reasonable people can disagree on this point, on whether not tipping constitutes a secondary exploitation. Firstly, this framing places blame on individuals when the whole situation is a systemic machine of abuse. It is no different than the nebulous idea of personal responsibility for greenhouse gas emissions, when large polluters have the actual levers to make real change. Secondly – and this is an economic policy argument which I personally don’t subscribe to – it can be argued that prolonged employment while underpaid is better than no employment at all, based on the premise that the employer would close down if a boycott was successful.
But like I said, the initial exploitation is root. Everything else is collateral. Systemic abuse is fixed by systemic overhaul.
I think reasonable people can disagree on this point, on whether not tipping constitutes a secondary exploitation.
No, they cannot. Disagreement here is not reasoned, it is just another example of clever people using their cleverness to justify unreasonable prior beliefs.
You can boycott a business, and write them to express that your boycott is based on their tipping policy. That would be a reasonable strategy to support the workers.
By still giving the business owners money, knowing they pay their staff sub-minimum wages based on the convention of tipping, and then not tipping, you have not communicated any disapproval to management. You have in fact directly supported the business owner exploiting their workers, and joined that exploitation for personal benefit. That’s the opposite of supporting the worker.
The result of either choice – boycotting places that pay less than minimum wage, or not tipping at those places – doesn’t change the fact that the staff are being underpaid, which is the root exploitative practice.
Yes, but boycotting those places is justifiable. Going anyway and just not tipping is actively participating in the exploitation.
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Minimum $1/drink from the get go… possibly $2 if it’s a cocktail. The quicker you catch the attention of the bartender the faster your drinks will flow.
IMO: it boils down to my happiness v. debating the whole tipping culture.
I think 1-2$ per drink is the recommendation because it’s easier to remember than doing the math, and you’re more likely to drop the cash and go rather than interacting with a busy bartender more. That said, if they’re doing full service for you (food, checking in on you), you should probably tip normally, because they’re acting as a server in that case.
I tip nothing for drinks, maybe 5 or 10 quid for a meal (for 3 or 4). Pay your staff so they don’t need to rely on tips.
You not tipping doesn’t teach the business owner, it just hurts those who aren’t in a position to change things and depending on the place, really need help. I’ve known too single moms who were servers to agree with this.
Lobby your local politicians, seek out places that don’t accept tips but don’t be a cheapskate and act like it’s a noble cause.
There is no convincing them to change their behavior because it’s an emotional reaction they backfill with paper thin logical.
These are people who, if given a position where they determined employees wages they would pay the bare minimum. The temporarily embarrassed millionaire mindset, class traitors, etc.
If they were approaching this from a truly moral position they would boycot establishments where tipping is expected. Instead they freeload and feel entitled to a server paid the literal minimum wage.
If they were approaching this from a truly moral position they would boycot establishments where tipping is expected. Instead they freeload and feel entitled to a server paid the literal minimum wage.
Exactly my thoughts. All this attitude does is punish a probably vulnerable person trying to make a decent living.
You can seek out non tip places etc but to go to ones that are tip and just give a shitty tip… Ugh.
I’m neither being a cheapskate nor acting like it’s a noble cause. Not sure what you read.
Not tipping for drinks, 5 or 10 on a meal for 3 or 4 is being cheap. (Even if you manage to all spend only 20 a person, 5 on an 80 bill is less than 10% and such a bad tip that depending on the establishment, it may have cost the server money to feed you.)
I assumed you were justifying it with “pay your staff so they don’t need to rely on tips.”
Thinking a tip is owed for anything is being wildly presumptuous. Nobody is owed a tip, never mind a tip of an arbitrary value below which you ascribe people as cheap. Wise up.
Might be different where you live but at least in North America, a lot of places split tips between front of house and the back (cooks, cleaners etc) and they do that on a percentage of volume, not the actual tips that come in.
Say, back of house takes a standard 5%. If you tip the server 5 quid on dinner and drinks for 4 which is almost certainly over 100, the difference comes out of the waitresses pocket.
Personally, I find that a form of theft from those least able to absorb it. And being a person with empathy, I think that is wrong. But to each their own.
The quality of service post covid is an abomination
People over tipped and the service staff got a strong feeling of entitlement
Now this needs to be rolled back. Boycot as much as possible when you do go out tip 15% on base price for food.
They try to use the PoS machines, take the time to fix the tip. Make it uncomfortable for the waiter.
Saying that the service staff have a feeling of entitlement gives off the biggest dickhead energy I’ve seen in my life.
“Oh those uppity servers with their cushy food service jobs think they deserve a tip, they only made it through a plague because they were deemed essential they didn’t do much”
It’s not the service people that’s the problem, it’s a combination of the people not paying a living wage for these jobs and a bunch of other industries getting in on tipping culture to pad their wallets.
Unless the person owns the business that server or cashier doesn’t even have a day in whether the POS has a tipping screen or not.
You’re a fucking idiot working a shit job and protecting the people who fuck you over.
Tipping is wrong on every level and needs to be abolished. The OP is wild in itself, you give an extra $2 to someone for the mere service of pouring you a drink in a bar. People outside the US just scoff, it’s madness.
And don’t give me the ‘oh but people need it to live, you’re an asshole’, go read my comment again.
The only way you’ll ever get rid of tipping culture and not paying living wages because of tipping is to stop tipping. By tipping you’re reinforcing that it’s acceptable practice for businesses to rely on their customers donating to their staff in order for the staff to make a decent wage.
If everyone stopped tipping, businesses would have to pay higher wages.
I disagree. You’d have to organize a national movement with a majority of the relevant population onboard. Can’t even get people to vote. Good luck.
You disagree with what? That it’s how you would get rid of tipping culture? Or that it’s possible?
I’m an American and I hate tipping culture. I don’t believe your solution to getting rid of tipping culture is viable. I think we collectively as a culture would need to agree not to tip, which isn’t going to happen. A much easier way would be through legislation and forcing employers to pay fair wages. I don’t think customers would be inclined to tip someone making a fair wage. If this thread and hundreds like them on Lemmy and Reddit are any indication, people are generally guilted into tipping because wait staff makes $2/hour or whatever in the states.
I think we collectively as a culture would need to agree not to tip
That’s what I’m saying.
which isn’t going to happen.
Not with that attitude it won’t!
A much easier way would be through legislation and forcing employers to pay fair wages.
Then you get into the other massive issues - define “fair”. Who defines what is a fair wage? Is it just minimum wage enforcement? If you raise the minimum wage for servers then you have to raise it almost everywhere else, which will fuel massive inflation and job losses.
I don’t think customers would be inclined to tip someone making a fair wage.
But when you tip you have no idea what the servers wage is.
Also as someone else pointed out in here, some states tried to get rid of tipping by raising the minimum wage of these servers and they complained so much the government abandoned it.
That’s my experience over last 1-2 years.
If you have had positive experiences, you are free to tip whatever is demanded.
If I am not getting decent services, I am done rewarding bad behavior.
Game 101. Social pressure does not work on me.
Game 101? Wow, every comment worse “social pressure doesn’t work on me” you aren’t tipping Batman, you aren’t tipping Joker, you’re just a jerk who should be eating at home.
10% now 🐸
At least that’s something, I doubt you do that cause I’ve already seen your justification. Honestly the person handing you drink after drink at the bar, wondering if they need to finally cut you off doesn’t care. I’m guessing they’re just happy to be rid of you. Eat alone isn’t advice I need to give you… is it?
Children. Name calling isn’t something anyone else wants to see. If a weak insult is all you have to say then just ignore them.
It’s super fun, though! Especially when the other person actually has a personality and is willing to mix it up.
is this supposed to be some sort of social pressure?
hehe
No,i just find you personally distasteful and don’t mind that you know it.
You should honestly stop going out at all, the person who is broken post covid is you. You’re taking it out on random wait staff you are choosing to patronize. Make your food yourself, drink your drinks at home, then the only person you’re making miserable is the person in the mirror.
You left out the part that is actually being tipped for, bringing the food to you. The chefs are salary.
People should be able to go out and buy thenfood at the prices listed.
Agreed, the entire system of tipping the American way should be fucking illegal. Wait staff should earn a living wage. I think it’s way more complicated than that, and you see pushback from the owners and the servers, and any movements to change it haven’t had enough backing socially to change anything.
But that’s kinda how it works, you choose to engage with it by going to an establishment with enployees that rely on tips. I mean hell, most of the time if you have a bad experience it’s due to something the waiter can’t control. Kitchen issues, staffing levels, poorly handled rushes. Being gleeful about how little you tip because of how things have changed… just don’t go out. Avoid having a shitty experience and being a shitty experience for someone else.
Note that a lot of places tips don’t go directly to wait stuff, it is being shared to subsidize salaries of everyone. Sometimes even boss man takes a cut.
If your tip is being taxed, thats guaranteed what is happening.
Pretty sure the boss cant take tips legally speaking. Tax the income, let the business survive based on its ability to cover its costs.
🤡
👑
This is for you love! So, at least one of your interactions wasn’t shitty in your life ❤️.
Really depends.
Typically, $1 is for a standup bar etc with high volume.
If I’m sitting at the bar top, getting fed, I’ll tip like I would were I sitting at a table. If I’m just sucking down beers, probably a buck or two a drink and if I’ve been a while, a 5 on top at the end.
But, I’ve known a lot of people in the industry etc… Also I’ve found that being a good person who tips helps out in the long run, it’s nice getting the occasional free drink, having the server on your side when flirting with folks at the bar etc. Best one was the bartender gave me really high end ski gloves that had been left behind a couple nights prior, the cash equivalent would’ve been huge.
As they say, it’s nice to be nice.
I think it’s insane too. I understand that tipping goes (theoretically) to the waitstaff, but I have a hard time tipping $1 per $4.50 bottle of beer handed to me. If it’s more complex of a drink than x and coke, sure it took their time.
Tipping table service used to be good amount only not drinks and tax. Now it seems to be on top the final total with 20% being expected.
There was an article just the other day pointing out that a lot of places are actually charging you a higher percentage than what they say they are. Chances are you’re being screwed over.
It’s pretty bullshit. Just raise the prices. We, the waitstaff, all hate it too, and will gladly tell our managers to remove it if you ask us.
I thought bar food is tipped the same as restaurant food.
Tipping a dollar a drink is standard because
- It’s easy
… that’s really it. No thinking, no math, etc. which is important when you’re drinking.
Also, you too per drink so the bartender knows you tip right from the start.
You mention the key for tipping, IMO. Bartenders are pretty damn good at identifying who gives a little. I feel it definitely helps me get my drinks even at a very crowded bar.
I tip the first drink, but not every single time I get a beer. Not paying a dollar for them to crack a Miller Lite. Maybe every other or third drink I’ll throw a dollar on there, maybe more at the end of the night.
