cross-posted from: https://lemmy.zip/post/46045941
“We need a reality check. Otherwise we are heading at full speed against a wall,” Mercedes chief executive Ola Kaellenius told the Handelsblatt business daily of the 2035 goal, adding that Europe’s car market could “collapse” if it goes ahead.
I think translated from CEO-speak, that means, “Chinese EV manufacturers are currently eating our lunch and dinner with their superior hardware and software and bundling and pricing and we need more than 10 years to get our act together.”
This has nothing to do with “Europe’s car market.” It’s all about the market share of European manufacturers. I love them to be strong and healthy, but not at the expense of the planet. Get your act together, you’ve wasted enough time already.
When I had my Sprinter van serviced, the dealer lent me one of their EVs so I could go grab lunch. That car was absolute dog shit. Everything about it felt cheap or half-assed. I am sorry but Mercedes EVs are completely outclassed by the Hyundai IONIQ line. At least BMW EVs still “feel” like BMWs.
I haven’t driven any EVs by BMW or Mercedes, but I assume that they’ve improved since they started making them. The new CLA does not look like it’s completely outclassed by the Hyundais: 800 Volt architecture, 320 kW DC charging, highly efficient, decently serviceable drivetrain, comes as an estate. The only advantage the Koreans have is price, and simulated gear shifts on the N models. But in return your car will be ethically produced in Europe, and not made by a company that refuses to withdraw from the Russian market.
I drove the Mercedes last December, so I am pretty sure it was a 2025 model. Aesthetics aside, my criticism is of the build itself. On the other hand, the BMW i4 and iX (also 2025 models) feel solid.
Which model Mercedes did you drive? I’ve heard good things about the iX, but haven’t driven it. Unfortunately I don’t have money for a car. But if I did, I’d be tempted to get a new CLA.
EQB but don’t bother. The Hyundai Ioniq 5 is far superior.
And not to forget how they fucked their costumers with the fake emission numbers!
They really think their costumers are stupid.
Now they get karma, as it should be.
wasn’t that WV?
Audi BMW Mercedes-Benz Opel Porsche Seat Skoda VolkswagenThey all had their fair share in the scandal…
WV
Wolksvagen
Bollerwagen
No, Europe’s car market won’t “collapse”. The companies which have spent the last 10-15 years planning & investing, and the next 10 years building & rolling out will make the transition and those that haven’t will go to the wall.
In fairness to Mercedes they are making some effort. They do offer electric versions for most of their range but they also suck compared to the competition by price & performance. Probably because they’re compromised by sharing a platform with ICE vehicles. This isn’t the fault of the technology, it’s the fault of Mercedes for drawing conclusions from their own bad decisions.
It is also Mercedes fault that they’re not knuckling down and solving this issue. Mercedes had better pull its finger out. Or it could whine, spread FUD, or waste money on tangents like “synthetic” fuels. If it chooses the latter, it WILL go bust and have to be bailed out by a competitor.
Reality is that we don’t have much oil here in Europe it makes no sense to use a ressource we don’t have
We habe a little oil in Europe. We have absolutely no rare earth metals for batteries. Either way we have to import the stuff we need!
we have shittons of rare earth metals, but we also don’t want to dig them up because of the health risks and environmental damage. we pay other people to tank that.
We do have many of them. We just have chosen not to mine them because that creates environmental and health issues and we can obtain them from elsewhere. When we mine them here, then mostly in remote places.
Cobalt: Top producer is DRC, Europe has a minor local production, mostly in Finnland Lithium: Abundant everywhere but difficult to extract, the EU doesn’t produce any significant quantities right now Nickel: Only 1.5% produced in EU, again mostly in Finnland Maganese: This is the only metal relevant for current batteries where there are no (known) significant deposits in central EU, some are around the black sea, industrial production is nonexistent.
Where the EU is already more present is in the refining of the raw ores. I think the current situation is, while not great, acceptable. As long as many different producers of the rare metals are available and the EU creates reserves of them (it does), it is fine to be dependent on imports for the moment.
a car brand often driven by douchebags, has a douche as a ceo, makes sense the target audience.
No no, in a Europe the douches all drive BMW. Mercedes is only for the wealthy.
Both. Douches and rich
The reality check is that we need to be banning cars more than transitioning to electric ones. Build better infrastructure.
We can’t realistically do that. We could aim to lower their usage though.
The European car market won’t collapse, people will just switch to Chinese EVs who are cheaper to buy and run and have better options. I think this CEO just overestimates the value and brand appeal of his company. Especially young people associate Mercedes with an old people car.
Because only old people have the money to buy them… german car’s are WAY too expensive.
I buy an asian car with all extras for the price of a german base model, with nothing extra.
chinese evs run and have better options
Suuureeee. One look at chinese social media shows the opposite. Them suddenly bursting into flames, uncontrolled self driving, you being able to be locked inside them and, like Huawei, it survaling you 24/7. Yeaaah no i’ll gladly pass
Especially young people associate Mercedes with an old people car.
As a young person, first time i heared this.
US people have a completely different exposure to European brands.
I think most people associate Mercedes with “expensive” and their electric offerings are even more so. And they’re not particularly good EVs either cited for problems with reliability. I think that’s the real issue for the brand. The value proposition isn’t there, not even for people looking for a luxury car.
If you dont want to change then die slowly. Others will take your place
I guess we’ll just buy chinese cars, then.
As silly as horse cars demanding a reality check when confronted with the rise of electric streetcars
I think it’s not silly. It’s just the car manufacturers who need the reality check and not politics.
What’s the matter, big boy, can’t compete in the free market? Is your job too hard? Do you need more subsidies? Yeah? Tariffs on Chinese cars? Shall the politicians come over and fuck your wife as well?
In any sane economy, this CEO would be terminated immediately for endangering the company.
Delaying he switch to full EV production is actively hurting the required transformation process they should have started 10 years ago. Further delays will just make the impact so much worse, but that’s of no concern to the current shareholders, apparently.
Mercedes CEO shouting from the ivory tower. They’re cooked.
We should really start emphasising that there is no blanket ban on combustion engines planned but an emissions ban. If the car manufacturers wanted to and found it feasible, they’re free to build emission free combustion engines. Every time they call it a combustion engine ban is an admission that they can’t or at least won’t build better engines.
I mean, is there any way to make emissions free ice? Fuel has to go in so it has to come out. I don’t think it’s disingenuous to call it a combustion ban.
That and it’s not like because the fuel you get to charge your EV is necessarily emissions free either.
E-fuels are specifically allowed by the EU law. This was added at the last second due to lobbying from Germany and the German car lobby. Another option would be hydrogen engines. So yes, it is absolutely possible to build and sell new ICE cars after 2035 but they’re unlikely to be successful because of the high expected fuel costs.
Right now, depending on where you live, a more or less significant part of the electricity you charge EVs with is not emission free, that’s true. But there are two major advantages: EVs work with emission free electricity just the same as with emissive electricity. So once more or eventually all of the electricity becomes emission free, which is actively being worked on, the car would automatically become emission free. And secondly, you can control where the emissions happen. Especially in cities carbon and nitrous emissions from ICE cars significantly affect the air quality. Even if the electricity for an EV was produced in the most polluting way possible, that pollution would be located at the power plant and could be controlled or mitigated there.
EVs are actually particularly attractive with a higher portion of renewables in the electricity mix. With renewables you can’t control when the peak power production happens. But if you have EVs and their battery capacity in the grid, you could use these peaks of power production to charge the EVs instead of letting it go to waste.
IMO he should “get on a bike”. Literally. I keep walking…
I don’t know what the law says, but prohibiting circulation of CO2 cars in 10 years is excessive, it would cause a crisis where people stop buying cars that are still being produced and no one would buy those used cars. Prohibiting the selling of new CO2 emitting cars in 10 years seems like a very good thing, and gives plenty of time for the industry to adapt.
… funnily enough, the EU plans the latter, while some car makers act as if it meant the former.
Banning sales of fossil fuel cars after 2035 is exactly the plan.
No. Banning sales of non-zero emission plans is the plan, it doesn’t specifically ban combustion engines. Combustion engine tech has stagnated like the last 4 decades, though, so it’s highly unlikely they’ll be zero emission within 10 years.
This is car manufacturers complaining that they haven’t made steps forward for 40 years and are now forced to switch to the technology that made them obsolete.
Combustion engine tech has stagnated like the last 4 decades,
This isn’t true at all, combustion engines have improved by huge amounts in terms of efficiency and reliability in that time.
Reliability? Absolutely.
And on paper, they made significant steps to reduce emissions in their engines. But that’s on paper, the VW scandal a few years ago has shown us how trustworthy those figures are.
Efficiency? Not really. Combustion engines used in cars still only average to about 30% effiency, which is a number only marginally higher than what I learned in school over 20 years ago. This is largely because car engines mostly dont operate within their peak-performance/efficiency windows.
I guess that a hydrogen fueled vehicle would be allowed then, which is terrible since basically all hydrogen is made from methane currently. 🙈
It would indeed be allowed, even though it’s quite inefficient, wherever it comes from. However it potentially allows for storage of its energy source, which is its main selling point compared to purely electrical systems with the current battery technologies (although those are evolving as well).
